[Sam]

To be perfectly honest, I believed that old PC Party to be Liberals with a different name. Remember the days when the Liberals wanted to scrap CUFTA and then NAFTA? Anyway, this will shape up to be an interesting election. Also, I agree that the NDP and Greens have far more political integrity than the Liberals (despite Layton's move to prop up the Liberals whom he later called corrupt).

Absolutely true. Personally, the only difference I see between the current Conservatives and the Liberals are in social issues, like same sex marriage. True, the Liberals run like socialists but they rule from the right.

And, in Layton's defense, propping up Liberal minorities has always helped the NDP/CCF get important reforms through the House in the past. Atleast he took a stand with healthcare and withdrew his support when Martin wouldn't gurantee his commitment to public healtcare.

Although, it seems that Martin finally got around to reading Trudeau's book "Getting Elected in Canada for Dummies."

Rule #1: Get the American gov't to criticize you publicly and then respond to them as if you have a spine. If you don't actually have backbone, pretend.

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[skippy the wonder dog]

j-monster, the short answer to your extended ravings comes from Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: "Lighten up. Learn to enjoy losing."

This is from a scene in which he is losing money in a casino in the wee hours of the morning while wondering at all the strange people "still humping the American dream." The point is political, of course: you can't win, he says, because the game is rigged. So learn to enjoy losing.

We NDP supporters have enjoyed losing for many years. We've become very good at it.

The problem with you, j-monster, is that you still think you can win.

You can't. You're doomed to lose for all time, because the Canadian consensus is with, and will remain with, Paul Martin's happy gang of pragmatists.

The best thing you can do at this point is to join me in the hotel bar, where we will sit and get drunk while throwing peanuts at all the losers out on the floor, still humping that Canadian dream at 3 a.m., putting all their chips down and hoping that the dice won't come up snake eyes.

While we're there, why don't we play Bingo?

http://www.ndp.ca/debatebingo

[Sam]

We NDP supporters have enjoyed losing for many years. We've become very good at it.

We order our "Don't blame me, I voted NDP" buttons in bulk!

I have a friend who is very active in the NDP. Just before the Bob Rae win in Ontario, he attended a workshop where they brainstormed on 'post-election strategy' for the NDP in Ontario. Out of about 20 working groups, one group decided to develop strategy for an NDP win. When they announced their plans to the larger group, everyone laughed.

The Liberals suit the general Canadian character. We want healthcare, but we don't want to pay taxes to support it. We hate the US, but we envy them. We know it's wrong to leave people starving, but we're not sure we like the whole idea of being responsible to feed them either.

See, we want to be kind of socialist, (or the majority of us do) we just don't want to pay for it. And so - we don't vote Conservative because they'd be too mean with our money and we can't bring ourselves to vote NDP because they'd be too generous. What's left? And the Liberals win again by default! We're like Goldilocks and the Liberal porridge is just right!

Didn't Gord Downie just say something in a recent article about Canadians getting their heads out of their asses?

[j-monster]

I'm not demanding anything from the Conservatives; merely stating that if they want to hold power in this country, then they'll have to accept that the majority of Canadians since the Mulroney era seem to think that Canada is somewhat statist, somewhat [gasp!] socialist, and this vision informs their choices.

Why risk alienating some voters? I don't know, to win? A gamble that may win them voters, potential leadership. It would allow them to initiate some of the reforms they've discussed -- many of them sensible and appealing.

OK, so let me see if I understand you properly. The Conservatives will benefit by moving completely to the centre? And as a result, traditional liberals will look at them and say, "Ah, the Liberals do that already, so I'll just vote for them anyway", while traditional conservatives get so angered by the party straying away from its conservative roots that they'll abandon the party altogether? Doesn't exactly sound like the definition of success to me.

Campaign-wise, the conservatives have failed to impress me thus far.

Wait a minute... your last paragraph said that many of the reforms the Conservatives are proposing are "sensible and appealing", yet now you say that they haven't impressed you campaign-wise? I'm confused here.

Look at Paul Martin, ramping up his criticism of the US over Kyoto

Numerous reports state that Canada, which committed to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 6% to meet the Kyoto targets, has actually increased emissions by 24% since 1990. Meanwhile, the US has only increased emissions by 13% in that same time period. Oops.

Floppy Mclipperson, er I mean Stephen Harper, meanwhile was also "set the record straight" with the Washington Post because they had published a column suggesting Mr. Harper was pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto and socially conservative. Bullshit.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Stephen Harper, a flip-flopper? He's not even close to Paul "Mr. Dithers" Martin on this one... he's not even in Martin's league! Whether you believe Mr. Harper's letter to the Post or not is your business, but to call him a flip-flopper yet not even discuss Martin's penchant for this is silly.

If Paul Martin's fooling me and running around everywhere trying to grab votes, well, I say keep fooling me. I like it.

Banning handguns? Fooled! Harldine approach against the states vis a vis trade and Kyoto! Fooled again! Same sex marriage? Ah you got me again!

Keep running and fooling Paulie!

Same sex marriage is hardly an issue in this election. I've already undermined your "hardline approach against the states vis a vis Kyoto" argument, and you even admitted that Harper is committing to the same things as Martin regards to trade issues with the US. And as far as the banning handgus argument, I defer to Skippy's excellent posts on that front.

[j-monster]

j-monster, the short answer to your extended ravings comes from Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas: "Lighten up. Learn to enjoy losing."

This is from a scene in which he is losing money in a casino in the wee hours of the morning while wondering at all the strange people "still humping the American dream." The point is political, of course: you can't win, he says, because the game is rigged. So learn to enjoy losing.

We NDP supporters have enjoyed losing for many years. We've become very good at it.

The problem with you, j-monster, is that you still think you can win.

You can't. You're doomed to lose for all time, because the Canadian consensus is with, and will remain with, Paul Martin's happy gang of pragmatists.

The best thing you can do at this point is to join me in the hotel bar, where we will sit and get drunk while throwing peanuts at all the losers out on the floor, still humping that Canadian dream at 3 a.m., putting all their chips down and hoping that the dice won't come up snake eyes.

While we're there, why don't we play Bingo?

http://www.ndp.ca/debatebingo

First of all, I'm not sure my extended posts can be classified as ravings... but meh, whatever, if you want to call them ravings, I'm not about to get all upset about it.

I disagree with your assessment about conservatives' chances of winning. I think we can win. I believe we can win. In any case, I'd rather believe I can win than sit back and give up. Call me crazy.

I must admit, however... that bingo game sure looks like fun! :lol:

[longseason]

God love our country because our elections are not swung based on death tolls in foreign climes or hate crimes or genocide.

I'm glad we are arguing over such (for the most part) inconsequential matters.

Anyway -- I'm out of this argument because I'm going to LA tomorrow.

:jump

Sorry, j-monster -- you won't be able to convince me to vote conservative. I refuse to as long as Stephen Harper is in power. I won't quote statistics. I'll just tell ya right now. I don't believe the majority of Canadians would stand to see Harper in power. Just my opinion.

Looks like Mississaugua will be Red again this election, too. But good luck to your candidate.

[j-monster]

God love our country because our elections are not swung based on death tolls in foreign climes or hate crimes or genocide.

I'm glad we are arguing over such (for the most part) inconsequential matters.

Anyway -- I'm out of this argument because I'm going to LA tomorrow.

:jump

Sorry, j-monster -- you won't be able to convince me to vote conservative. I refuse to as long as Stephen Harper is in power. I won't quote statistics. I'll just tell ya right now. I don't believe the majority of Canadians would stand to see Harper in power. Just my opinion.

Looks like Mississaugua will be Red again this election, too. But good luck to your candidate.

Well that's cool. My aim wasn't necessarily to convince you to change your vote... I got a pretty strong idea you had your mind made up. I was trying to point out what I thought were inconsistencies in your arguments.

Enjoy LA... man it's gotta be a whole lot warmer there than it is here right now!

[skippy the wonder dog]

duplicate post. oops.

[skippy the wonder dog]

First of all, I'm not sure my extended posts can be classified as ravings... but meh, whatever, if you want to call them ravings, I'm not about to get all upset about it.

Tongue firmly in my cheek, j-monster.

As for the rest, well, go ahead and put all your money on black 19 or whatever, but I tell ya, the house always wins. And don't be alarmed if you start getting hit in the back of the head with peanuts on election night.

That's just me.

Oh, and it's not giving up until you vote Liberal.

[fingernailsonhull]

Oh, and it's not giving up until you vote Liberal.

Haha, well, we agree on something :thumb:

[j-monster]

First of all, I'm not sure my extended posts can be classified as ravings... but meh, whatever, if you want to call them ravings, I'm not about to get all upset about it.

Tongue firmly in my cheek, j-monster.

As for the rest, well, go ahead and put all your money on black 19 or whatever, but I tell ya, the house always wins. And don't be alarmed if you start getting hit in the back of the head with peanuts on election night.

That's just me.

Oh, and it's not giving up until you vote Liberal.

1. Yeah, my answer to your ravings joke came out a little harsher than I at first thought. My bad. :oops:

2. I'll wear a helmet on election night, just in case. And hey, I do like peanuts... :lol:

3. As Jeff said, cheers to us for agreeing on at least one thing! :thumb:

[TLB]

Don't really have a favourite.
As long as Harper doesn't win, I'm fine.
I don't trust his hair.

[srb]

Well with 23% of the vote here at the Hipbase, it is obvious that Harper wasn't the popular choice, but we have a new Prime Minister...looks like Canada wanted a change :thumb:

Thanks to everyone who voted here!

Paul Martin
32% [ 19 ]
Stephen Harper
23% [ 14 ]
Jack Layton
30% [ 18 ]
Other
13% [ 8 ]