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Just pulled this off chartattack.com
Gord Downie, lead singer from The Tragically Hip, had some strong words concerning what he thinks Canada should be prepared for.
"It's a pivotal time in Canada's history," he said. "It's a chance for Canadians to shed the old nationalism which is fairly chauvinistic and blind in its devotion to nothing. I think Canadians want a new nationalism and these new polls that they have are fine, but I read in the polls that 18-34 year olds agree that this will accomplish something and those are the people who we are really talking about. Those are the people that are going to make it fine for our children or better for our children.
"This new nationalism that I'm talking about is one in which a country judges its greatness by what it can do for mankind, for what it can do for the world. It has nothing to do with how we're thought of," Downie told the media.
Well said Gordy, I agree.
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It's a tough situation to argue against, but I really don't see anything wrong with Paul Martin's position. Canada has the highest fulfillment in African Aid commitments; we're tied with the US (72%) We spend $600 million a year on African aid, that number is expected to double by fiscal 2009, and we spend hundreds of millions on peace-keeping missions and emergency relief in third world countries that isn't included in foreign aid.
The Government of Canada's goal is to decrease African poverty by 50% by 2015; a big rock concert and eight powerful men in Scotland is not enough to make this massive problem vanish in it's entirety any sooner than that. Ten years to cut povertly in half is an astonishing goal for Africa, while 15% of our own country lives in poverty.
What really bothers me the most about the whole situation is Geldof's stance with Canada. Yes, we are the only country in the G8 to be posting consecutive surpluses, but we got there through relativley responsible government spending while doing our part (ratio-wise) of supporting African Aid...
Is it just me, or is it kind of ridiculous to ask a Prime Minister (while globally embaraassing him as well; telling Paul Martin to not attend the G8 convention is really just stupid) to send his country back into a deficit while Canada already provides proportionately adequate funds to this relief cause, and has been doing so a lot longer than most of the G8.
Paul Martin said it, and it's true... half of the G8 will make contribution promisies it can't keep; and there will be nobody to blame ten years down the road when the US, the UK, or France doesn't live up to promises made by a leader three cabintet generations ago...
I expect Paul Martin to increase Canadian aid to Africa, due in part to the Live 8, but you have to be completely ignorant to expect anything near the 0.7%... and as much as the Conservatives in this country will argue, Paul Martin really is financially responsible man... (check the deficit from 93-02)
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I think the more important aspect that Geldof and Bono are overlooking is the shape African governments are in and how badly they have mismanaged their own state of affairs. For example, Sierra Leone used to be a relatively stable country for 20 some years and it looks like the government leaders and the opposition is sliding towards the abyss of civil war. Look at Zimbabwe for crying out loud. This isn't just a case of a leader gone terribly bad, but also neighbor countries refusing to admit they need to act and by their head-in-the-sand routine, Mbeki and his counterparts are allowing Mugabe time to decimate the country further. It is very true that Western nations could allocate more money and find ways to make sure their successors honor their pledges but the reality is most G-8 leaders are going to be leery of ponying up more money when they don't see political stability in Africa.
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I dont really see how thats ironic, Im not the source of the problem. Selling my car and everything I own and giving the money to charity isn't what this is all about, this is a global problem and one that can be solved with the right people doing whats right, if we pay taxes into a system and that system fails us, who's to blame? Think about this for a second, if all the people in the world who claim to want peace and want to help others and end poverty and that includes all the world leaders, if they truly want to do whats right, they have the capacity to do so. If anyone in this world cared about anyone else we wouldn't need to spend trillions on warfare and could use that money to help others and end poverty. (and yeah thats never going to happen) So what I do with my money and my time has nothing to do with this problem, and if I want to buy an xbox360 and I will buy one so what? Hey, if I had the capacity to end poverty I would do it, wouldn't you? Id hope so. Like someone else said, why dont Bono, Bill Gates, Oprah and McCartney and all the rest help out? Those are the people you should be critizing, not me. But then again who's to say what people should do with their money, do you think everyone on earth has an obligation to help out? This is a global problem and it will take more than just a few people giving money to make it go away, but sadly I still think it will never go away, ever.
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I goofed on Gates there, he does do alot of charity work, most of the time he does it privately so most people dont know how much he actually gives. Good on him, Im an admirer of Gates (laugh if you will) but you have to respect him on how much he has accomplished and its good to see him help out others. Your probably right on, it does seem Bono and Doprah do alot more talking than helping. I know if I had the money I would help out as best I could. But what people choose to do with their money is their business. With all the talk about this issue since Live 8 was concived I just thought I'd give my perspective and elaborate on Downie's comments, I didn't expect to be taken to task about my hipbase signature, I still don't see how its relevant. If someone gives an opinion here it seems someone is waiting to tear the person down who gave it, Downie made similar comments as I, but is someone here going to take him to task about how much he has done or is doing for Africa? And why would you anyways. :?
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tigerthelion Wrote:LizardKing51 Wrote:Downie made similar comments as I, but is someone here going to take him to task about how much he has done or is doing for Africa? And why would you anyways. :?
Good point. :thumb:
It's a good cause but these musicians just seem too idealistic about it. I don't think they know all the details about Africa, like maybe it's better to fix how they are governed than to just try to make sure they have food. I know that I can't comment on Africa because I know very little about the situation.
Downie mentioned on CTV that it felt like his whole life had led him to this point and his life was built up for him to be doing what he was doing by being at the concert. He also mentioned that it's never too late for an awakening. I kind of agree with him but after all, he's only a musician. The problem is so big that I'm not sure it can be fixed to be honest. G8 governments can't just give a bucket of money to Africa. The problem is a lot more complicated than the general public is led to believe.
I agree with you here, I dont want to paint all musicians with the same brush, but Im sure you're not far off. The problem is fixable, but it would take so much effort on the part of everyone that it just wont happen its not in reach, not in this system of things anyways. These kinds of problems will always plague mankind and wont go away Im afraid. Its noble for Downie to say that but I not exactly sure what he means by it, about how his life led him to this point, interesting thoughts as usual.
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just as an addition to my previous post, it seems to me that one of the underlying causes of thugs like Mugabe, Taylor, et all is twofold; there is still alot of tribalism in these countries that turns government into a my-tribe-is-topdog political fracas, even in relatively stable democracies like South Africa where at least the tribes that form the backbone of the ANC and Inkantha (sp?) compete with words and policy platforms rather than tanks and guns. And of course we can't overlook what the colonial Western powers did in creating new countries that overlapped tribal boundaries; though I am puzzled why some African countries can't move on and accept that past mistakes can't always be rectified to their total satisfaction when there are plenty of models, both Western and non-Western, to show them how to coexist in peace.
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As you mentioned earlier, anybody with a buck is going to be cautious in giving it to any African country. While certain governments are capable of supporting themselves, thats about all they can handle. Africa is awash with civil instability, governments are non-existent in the eyes of most of the people, providing no support, no direction, and offering little resololution for any problems it's citizens encounter.
The entire continent is based in desert-land; nothing can be grown, and what little natural resources Africa had have been confiscated by Western Europe through the last three centuries (I think Italy, France and the UK owe a decent chunk of cash for the millions in diamonds and gold they still trade).
I don't find it all that surprising that these power-bound struggles continue; what chance do the people in these countries have against a brigade of armed citizens who are fighting for what they believe they deserve (although, quite obviously, genocide isn't the most picturesque method of obtaining it). Most of these countries can't implement any form of democracy. The government often has no presence, the country surely does not have the resources. And would it even help? Look at the Middle East and Eastern Europe. Countries we consider moderately developed, even by North American standards, are still playing their cards to the same degree.
Not to pull a 'debbie-downer' on the whole issue, I think we all grasp the grave situation in Africa, but what happens (and it's damn near impossible) if the G8 miraculously wipes out all the foreign debt in Africa, provides enough cash to bring poverty to a halt, sends thousands and thousands of troops and volunteers to build hospitals, schools, etc., and provides a blue-print for control, and then we wait. How can a continent like Africa sustain itself without on-going aid. How can they grow food? They have basically nothing to trade. As labour-intensive as their people are, they have nothing to build a foundation on.
I hope I'm missing something...
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While I agree with some of what you are saying das_hips, I have to point out that alot of African countries have plenty of resources to bootstrap themselves into the twenty-first century but they lack the stability and know-how to make their countries sustainable. Sierra Leone has a ton of diamond mines that would promote sustainable economic growth if the proceeds were invested back into the country instead of being ripped off by government leaders for their use or by rebel groups seeking to impose their own form of crazy government. Zimbabwe has some of the most fertile land in all of Africa, but all that land is going to waste thanks to Mugabe and his hate-on for the white commercial farmers and paranoia that the MDC is going to unceremonously dump him from power. I think the key problem is the unwillingness (and understandably so) of Western leaders to pour taxpayer dollars into unstable countries yet they also aren't willing to explicitly say that these countries need to stop resorting to murder and violence to form governments because they are afraid any criticism will get them labeled as racist. In my mind, its not racist to criticize the failings of certain leaders like Mugabe or Taylor while urging the people of these countries to look to African leaders who are willing to take some risks and right some past wrongs like Mandela, de Klerk and Mbeki.
