[tommygunn]

Hmmm, lot to say here but not much time to say it right now...

All you people who use the 'playing God' spiel, every time you go to the doctor's or have a surgery, or take meds, etc., you yourself are engaging in the 'playing God' practice. Being hooked up with IV or taking prescription medicine is no different than what Terri has been going thru. I wonder how many of you who use the 'playing God' arguments are being nothing but hypocrites... :roll:

Secondly, it is not 100% certain that Terri is in a PVS. She hasn't had ANY therapy in many years. Christ, she hasn't even ventured outside! That is incomprehensible! Many people have 'come back' from a so-called PVS after undergoing extensive therapy... something that Terri hasn't had the chance to do.

Thirdly, someone said the abuse charge of her husband is nothing but hearsay. Well so too is his and others claim of her not wanting to live in the current condition she is in. There is absolutley nothing in writing to prove otherwise. Some people need to be a lil more objective in their arguments.

Finally, Michael Schiavo should be charged with adultery. Under Florida Law, he is guilty of this charge and should be punished accordingly.

--> 798.01 Living in open adultery.--Whoever lives in an open state of adultery shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082...

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm

[prz]

Thirdly, someone said the abuse charge of her husband is nothing but hearsay. Well so too is his and others claim of her not wanting to live in the current condition she is in. There is absolutley nothing in writing to prove otherwise. Some people need to be a lil more objective in their arguments.

Well before you start telling people about the rules of Hearsay, maybe you should go read the rule and its exceptions. If she made the statements about wanting to die, there are exceptions to get her comments on the record. As for the abuse charges, its her family claiming them. Not her. Big difference

[tommygunn]

If she made the statements about wanting to die...

That's the key word.. if. If she made the statement.

Going back to your earlier comment...

As for the spousal abuse that is nothing more than hearsay. There is no proof of that. If it did happen its terrible and disgusting, but there is no proof except for the parents alleging it.

Just as there is no proof she made the statements about wanting to die. No proof except for her husband (and others) alleging it.

[prz]

If she made the statements about wanting to die...

That's the key word.. if. If she made the statement.

Going back to your earlier comment...

As for the spousal abuse that is nothing more than hearsay. There is no proof of that. If it did happen its terrible and disgusting, but there is no proof except for the parents alleging it.

Just as there is no proof she made the statements about wanting to die. No proof except for her husband (and others) alleging it.

You are right, people have alleged she made those comments and for some reason it has been able to stand up in the courts how many times? At a certain point after so many judges have ruled on matter, you have to let it go and respect the court's decision.

[thipfan73]

If she made the statements about wanting to die...

That's the key word.. if. If she made the statement.

Going back to your earlier comment...

As for the spousal abuse that is nothing more than hearsay. There is no proof of that. If it did happen its terrible and disgusting, but there is no proof except for the parents alleging it.

Just as there is no proof she made the statements about wanting to die. No proof except for her husband (and others) alleging it.

You are right, people have alleged she made those comments and for some reason it has been able to stand up in the courts how many times? At a certain point after so many judges have ruled on matter, you have to let it go and respect the court's decision.

I just have to say, about abuse. I've been in an abusive relationship and I never broke any bones or had any bruises but I was still abused physically and mentally. The boyfriend whom did it to me still denies it too. So, that is proof that someone's word can not be taken.

[skippy the wonder dog]

Secondly, it is not 100% certain that Terri is in a PVS. She hasn't had ANY therapy in many years. Christ, she hasn't even ventured outside! That is incomprehensible! Many people have 'come back' from a so-called PVS after undergoing extensive therapy... something that Terri hasn't had the chance to do.

Uh, nope.

The only doctors who dispute that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state are either quacks or are making politically motivated statements without actually having examined her.

For example, Dr. Hammesfahr is described as a Nobel nominee who is offering a pioneering new therapy. Further investigation reveals that his Nobel "nomination" was by a person who has no standing to nominate someone for the prize (and therefore he was not nominated at all), and that his pioneering therapy has never been published in a peer-reviewed journal. It was published, however, in the National Enquirer. If it ducks like a quack....

Dr. Cheshire was described by Jeb Bush as a renowned neurologist, but the NYT checked to see just how "renowned" he is:

"Mr. Bush called Dr. Cheshire a "renowned neurologist," but he is not widely known in the neurology or bioethics fields. Asked about him, Dr. Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, replied, 'Who?'"

What we do find is that Dr. Cheshire's views place him in the right to life camp. On its own, that constitutes an ad hominem argument, but we also have to note that he did not examine Schiavo and that other doctors have criticized him for making a diagnosis without actually examining the patient. Clearly, his statements express his ideological position rather than a medical opinion.

As for people "coming back" from a persistent vegetative state, while some do recover consciousness, doctors agree that this does not happen to people who have been in a PVS a long as Schiavo or who show the level of brain damage that Schiavo shows.

More info on PVS:
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921394859.html
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/330/21/1499

Schiavo did, in fact, undergo extensive therapy for about seven years before Michael Schiavo decided that there was no hope for recovery. So the claim that she has not been given a chance is false.

Thirdly, someone said the abuse charge of her husband is nothing but hearsay. Well so too is his and others claim of her not wanting to live in the current condition she is in.

As prz pointed out, the court evaluated this and made a decision. You get to have an opinion, but you don't get to have the court decision overturned because you happen to disagree.

It is notable that the abuse charge isn't even mentioned in the court documents. It is also notable that the Schindlers got along fine with Michael Schiavo for years, until the malpractice settlement was awarded, which is inconsistent with the recent allegation that he is responsible for her condition. It appears on that basis that the allegations of abuse were concocted after the fact.

There is absolutley nothing in writing to prove otherwise. Some people need to be a lil more objective in their arguments.

Finally, Michael Schiavo should be charged with adultery. Under Florida Law, he is guilty of this charge and should be punished accordingly

Leaving aside your desire to act as judge, jury and executioner, this is a red herring. So he is charged with adultery. So he is convicted. So they cut off his balls, or exact whatever fearsome punishment the law provides for this heinous crime. What has that got to do with the price of beer in Norway, or with Terri Schiavo's condition?

Yes, some people do need to be more objective in their arguments. Some people also need to learn how to construct an argument. Red herrings and ad hominems won't get you there.

[tommygunn]

Secondly, it is not 100% certain that Terri is in a PVS. She hasn't had ANY therapy in many years. Christ, she hasn't even ventured outside! That is incomprehensible! Many people have 'come back' from a so-called PVS after undergoing extensive therapy... something that Terri hasn't had the chance to do.

Uh, nope...

Uh, yes.

There is NO way possible to say with 100% certainty that someone is in a PVS. There is no blood test, no scan, not a thing that can undeniably prove it. It is purely a subjective diagnosis that should take several weeks of observation and with the patient undergoing countless hours of extensive therapy and rehab. The doctors Michael Schiavo hired observed her for around 45 minutes. cratch:

As for people "coming back" from a persistent vegetative state, while some do recover consciousness, doctors agree that this does not happen to people who have been in a PVS a long as Schiavo or who show the level of brain damage that Schiavo shows.

As I previously mentioned above, people who recover from a so-called PVS state usually do so as a result of extensive therapy. Terri hasn't had any extensive therapy since around 1992. If she isn't afforded the chance, how can people expect her to improve?
Also, she has never had an MRI scan. A CT scan yes, but an MRI scan would be more revealing. Why hasn't she had one?

Schiavo did, in fact, undergo extensive therapy for about seven years before Michael Schiavo decided that there was no hope for recovery. So the claim that she has not been given a chance is false.

Seven years of 'extensive therapy'? Where did you get that info from?? hock:
Anyways, you'd have to be pretty naive not to realize medical science and treatment for people with disability has advanced tremendously since she was last treated.

[LaminarFlow]

Here's an update coutesy of your favorite Director at NBC12 in Richmond:

Terri Schiavo is dead.

Yay.

[Littleproud]

Wow...that seemed...cold.

[tragicallymike]

Wow...that seemed...cold.

I agree.

[Gov'tMule]

Here's an update coutesy of your favorite Director at NBC12 in Richmond:

Terri Schiavo is dead.

No, Terri Schiavo has been dead for a dozen years. That was the whole point.

[LaminarFlow]

Wow...that seemed...cold.

Sorry - I don't want to offend people, but I'm glad the whole ordeal is over with for her family & husband's sake.
I know it doesn't change anyone's hearts and minds on the "mercy killing" topic, but we've (the public) have been bombarded by this story non-stop when it should have been between the families, their lawyers, and the judges all along.
Sorry again for offending.

[Littleproud]

It's all good...and I agree. I'm sure we will hear about this for weeks to come.

[chicagoblackhawks77]

Such a tough call. .....

Just heard she died. The entire situation is tragic. Beautiful young girl struck down in her youth. Young husband that wanted to move on....... , parents want to keep her in a vegatative state.... not sure.

I'm real catholic (anti-abortion and death penalty) but I'm torn in this situation. In a way, I can understand why the husband wanted to let her go and stop her suffering, and in a way I can see why her folks wanted to keep her living in this condition.

The whole thing is certainly a land mark case. Ethics meet modern medicine.

My two cents.

Mick

[NMAS]

Such a tough call. .....

Just heard she died. The entire situation is tragic. Beautiful young girl struck down in her youth. Young husband that wanted to move on....... , parents want to keep her in a vegatative state.... not sure.

I'm real catholic (anti-abortion and death penalty) but I'm torn in this situation. In a way, I can understand why the husband wanted to let her go and stop her suffering, and in a way I can see why her folks wanted to keep her living in this condition.

The whole thing is certainly a land mark case. Ethics meet modern medicine.

My two cents.

Mick

I don't know if whe was struck down in her youth, she got that way beacuse of an eating dissorder, she pretty much did it to herself from what I understand. It is a shame none the less... I am glad it is over with, I felt bad, that she was being starved to death.