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Jon Stewart's Brutal Exchange with CNN Host, a must see
#16

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:
senschic Wrote:
scottitude Wrote:Thanks fo rthe link, NFBO. I heard something about it over the weekend but wouldn't ya know, the "fair and balanced" coverage made it sound like JS was outa line.

Now, if we can only get John Stewart and Bill Maher to run in '08! Never mind P & VP; they can be co-Presidents. Smile

~Scott


You guys are forgetting that once Stewart and Maher leave the confines of their television studios, there isn't a pack of screaming, swooning, moronic groupies following them around to bestow a false air of legitamacy upon every villifying statement they make.

You didn't watch the clip, huh? Stewart wasn't making partisan statements, he was attacking the general failure of the American media to hold politicians genuinely accountable. And for that, even the tourists at CNN centre "swooned..." as everybody should, because he's right.

And please define for me the difference between supporting soemone like Mahr or Stewart and being a "moronic groupie" while following someone like Bush or Cheney makes you what exactly?

When someone follows a public figure that disagree's with you, they're a pack of morons... okay, gotcha.

Opinion leaders are opinion leaders, and believing one of them might make you a lot of things: "moronic groupie" aint one of them.
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#17

Stephen Dame Wrote:
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:
senschic Wrote:
scottitude Wrote:Thanks fo rthe link, NFBO. I heard something about it over the weekend but wouldn't ya know, the "fair and balanced" coverage made it sound like JS was outa line.

Now, if we can only get John Stewart and Bill Maher to run in '08! Never mind P & VP; they can be co-Presidents. Smile

~Scott


You guys are forgetting that once Stewart and Maher leave the confines of their television studios, there isn't a pack of screaming, swooning, moronic groupies following them around to bestow a false air of legitamacy upon every villifying statement they make.

You didn't watch the clip, huh? Stewart wasn't making partisan statements, he was attacking the general failure of the American media to hold politicians genuinely accountable. And for that, even the tourists at CNN centre "swooned..." as everybody should, because he's right.

And please define for me the difference between supporting soemone like Mahr or Stewart and being a "moronic groupie" while following someone like Bush or Cheney makes you what exactly?

When someone follows a public figure that disagree's with you, they're a pack of morons... okay, gotcha.

Opinion leaders are opinion leaders, and believing one of them might make you a lot of things: "moronic groupie" aint one of them.

I think his point is there are some packed left wing crowds at their shows.

I personally dont think Stewart's crowd fits in there but Maher's crowds do for sure. Anything that is closely a cut at one of his right leaning guests or targetting the right recieve football stadium style screaming and clapping. But then again, Bill Maher lost his career after his ignorant post 9/11 comments.
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#18

"The Horrible Esthete Wrote:You guys are forgetting that once Stewart and Maher leave the confines of their television studios, there isn't a pack of screaming, swooning, moronic groupies following them around to bestow a false air of legitimacy upon every villifying statement they make.

Yeah, that would be like, you know, having Bush make a speech to the general public instead of a hand-picked crowd of Republican supporters that bestows a false air of legitimacy etc.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....
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#19

prz Wrote:I think his point is there are some packed left wing crowds at their shows.

Yep, prz. That's it, that's all, that's everything I meant.....
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#20

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:Yeah, that would be like, you know, having Bush make a speech to the general public instead of a hand-picked crowd of Republican supporters that bestows a false air of legitimacy etc.

Every "stump" speech for any presidential candidate is that way, skippy.....

But I thought we were talking about liberal comedians and their blindly biased studio audiences?
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#21

Nice try, but that doesn't cut it. If you can justify Bush (like all politicians) isolating himself from dissenting viewpoints, by saying it has always been thus, then may I suggest that audiences have always chosen to watch comedians and commentators they agree with? And may I ask precisely how you think that the biases of their audiences invalidate what they have to say?

Can we talk about conservative comedians and their blindly biased studio audiences? What evidence do you have that Stewart's audience is "blindly biased?" You've interviewed them, I take it?

The real problem is the one Stewart pointed to on Crossfire -- the needless division into ideological camps and the use of ideology as a substitute for critical thinking. The result is increasingly shrill discourse, if you can call it discourse at all. In an ideological world, there's no need to examine what Jon Stewart said; we simply choose between a) I'm liberal, so he's a hero and his audience are all smart and good looking, and b) I'm conservative, so he's a doofus and his audience is blindly biased.

Crossfire functions in exactly this way. It assumes that every issue has to be addressed from an ideological rather than a rational standpoint. It also rests on journalism's favourite fallacy, the middle ground fallacy: gosh, since no-one agrees, the truth must be in the middle. This is bunk.

Regardless of ideology, an objective viewer would have to say that Stewart seriously embarrassed Crossfire in his appearance. Tucker Carlson tried to force Stewart into a liberal position which he could then attack, but Stewart refused to play on his terms, instead continuing to hammer at Crossfire as an example of the media's failings. Stewart called both hosts "partisan political hacks," agreeing with neither. You might disagree with Stewart calling Carlson "a dick," but the audience reaction tells the tale. The audience (which, need I remind you, was Crossfire's audience rather than Stewart's) broadly agreed with Stewart's condemnation of ideological arguments.

Incidentally, although Carlson criticized Stewart for being too gentle with Kerry, Stewart is also gentle with conservative guests. Last night, for example, he allowed Ed Koch to characterize himself as a moderate despite the fact that he writes a column for NewsMax.com, and he allowed Koch to complain that "only liberals boo" (when a few people in the audience booed his support of Bush), which is blatantly false. (Stewart might have pointed out that one of Bush's hand-picked audiences booed when Bush extended well-wishes to Clinton re his bypass surgery, for example.) This is a good thing, I think.

Okay, that's more time than this deserves....
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#22

Damn, some of you people are drama queens. You'd think, after reading some of your responses, that you've all been regulars in Maher / Stewart audiences.

I never blasted Stewart himself; I actually think he's pretty funny. I just took a shot at those who seem have such high praise for the politics of sensationalist TV entertainers who pander their acts to key demographics as dictated by ratings.
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#23

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:
prz Wrote:I think his point is there are some packed left wing crowds at their shows.

Yep, prz. That's it, that's all, that's everything I meant.....

Do you not think that perhaps it would have been wise to say that then, instead of broadly insulting total strangers.

And even then, my point was the CNN crowd were not Stewart fans, and yet they "swooned" too, not because he was left or right but because he was correct.

Anybody see TDS last night? Jon showed a clip of Bob Novak (the guy who committed a federal crime, undid years of espionage work, and put a woman's life in danger for partisan purposes) calling Jon "uniformed." Bob Novak: Douchebag of Liberty.
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#24

Here's an article about Jon's Crossfire appearance from Canoe:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://jam.canoe.ca/Television/oct18_crossfire-ap.html">http://jam.canoe.ca/Television/oct18_crossfire-ap.html</a><!-- m -->
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#25

Stephen Dame Wrote:
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:
prz Wrote:I think his point is there are some packed left wing crowds at their shows.

Yep, prz. That's it, that's all, that's everything I meant.....

Do you not think that perhaps it would have been wise to say that then, instead of broadly insulting total strangers.

And even then, my point was the CNN crowd were not Stewart fans, and yet they "swooned" too, not because he was left or right but because he was correct.

Anybody see TDS last night? Jon showed a clip of Bob Novak (the guy who committed a federal crime, undid years of espionage work, and put a woman's life in danger for partisan purposes) calling Jon "uniformed." Bob Novak: Douchebag of Liberty.

Well for what its worth, I like Bob Novak, I always read his articles in the Chicago Sun-Times. Yes he is slanted right no doubt about it, but that doesnt mean he isnt a good journalist.

I dont know how you can blame him for that whole Wilson thing. I would place blame on the person who told him the agent's name and blew her cover. That person was the true "Douchebag of Liberty." In some respects you could argue that Novak was just doing his job.
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#26

prz Wrote:
Stephen Dame Wrote:
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:
prz Wrote:I think his point is there are some packed left wing crowds at their shows.

Yep, prz. That's it, that's all, that's everything I meant.....

Do you not think that perhaps it would have been wise to say that then, instead of broadly insulting total strangers.

And even then, my point was the CNN crowd were not Stewart fans, and yet they "swooned" too, not because he was left or right but because he was correct.

Anybody see TDS last night? Jon showed a clip of Bob Novak (the guy who committed a federal crime, undid years of espionage work, and put a woman's life in danger for partisan purposes) calling Jon "uniformed." Bob Novak: Douchebag of Liberty.

Well for what its worth, I like Bob Novak, I always read his articles in the Chicago Sun-Times. Yes he is slanted right no doubt about it, but that doesnt mean he isnt a good journalist.

I dont know how you can blame him for that whole Wilson thing. I would place blame on the person who told him the agent's name and blew her cover. That person was the true "Douchebag of Liberty." In some respects you could argue that Novak was just doing his job.

Doing his job? It's the motivation behind what he did, coupled with the laws he broke and the life that he ruined that make it so utterly despicable. Totally indefensible in my opinion.

As for being slanted, that DOESN'T make him a good journalist, it makes him a good columnist. Bob just doesn't seem to know, or care, about the difference.

I'd have no problem with the guy if he just gave his opinion, but his degrading, insluting, and in one instance: illegal and reckless actions, make me really, really dislike him.

To each their own I guess.
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#27

SD, he was doing his job as a slanted columnist or whatever you want to call him. But the person at fault was the person who leaked it to him. Someone told him about it and he printed it.

Also, what did he do exactly that was illegal? Print her name? If so, please point me to the statute he specifically violated. I would like to read it. thanks...
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#28

prz Wrote:SD, he was doing his job as a slanted columnist or whatever you want to call him. But the person at fault was the person who leaked it to him. Someone told him about it and he printed it.

Also, what did he do exactly that was illegal? Print her name? If so, please point me to the statute he specifically violated. I would like to read it. thanks...

It's illegal to identify a covert agent of the government and has been since 1776.

The "doing his job" defence is as weak as the "following orders" defence. He didn't print it because he had to, he did it because he wanted to inflict damage on somebody who had exposed the Bush's White House lies.

It was a low and dispicable thing to do, and he did it because of the political situation at that time... as I'm sure you know it was payback against the husband of that agent for writing a book. His wife's job had nothing to do with anything. Novak was simply doing the Republicans smear work to divert attention and harm a Bush enemy. There is no other explanantion, "reporting" the identity of a CIA agent was not his job, it wasn't news, it wasn't even relevant.

Novak is in no way a journalist, and IMO, in no way defendable for what he did.
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#29

Stephen Dame Wrote:
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:
prz Wrote:I think his point is there are some packed left wing crowds at their shows.

Yep, prz. That's it, that's all, that's everything I meant.....

Do you not think that perhaps it would have been wise to say that then, instead of broadly insulting total strangers.

And even then, my point was the CNN crowd were not Stewart fans, and yet they "swooned" too, not because he was left or right but because he was correct.

Dame, I get your point and it is valid, okay? My original comment was of a tongue-in-cheek nature, and was directed at those who seem to think Stewie & Maher could lead a nation.

But I'm not backing off that "broad insult of total strangers". It happens multiple times on every single one of Maher's Real Time shows. The audience will remain silent after a respectable right-wing guest (like Tony Snow, for example) will make a fair, valid, accurate statement. Then, Maher will make some low-brow, sensationalist jab to undermine that statement, and the crowd will go apeshit, like it's an episode of Celebrity Grudge Match and they're only there to root for Billy the Host. That, my friend, is moronic.
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#30

SD, yes I am aware of the whole Wilson sage, however my point that I stress over and over again is that the criminal in all this is the one WHO GAVE THE INFORMATION TO NOVAK. They are to blame for outing a covert agent.

As for it being illegal what Novak did, please point me to the exact clause from that 1776 document you sight which implicates Novak. I think you may be reading it incorrectly.
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