[skippy the wonder dog]

A lyrics question, just for Brazle. The question being, who wrote the lyrics for Up to Here? Are they all GD as on later albums, or are they partially Gord Sinclair's (or other band members')?

Reason for the question is that there is a noticeable change in the band's lyrics after Up to Here.

About half the songs on UTH are fictional ballads (in the sense of "a narrative poem") in the third person. (e.g. Opiated, She Didn't Know, I'll Believe in You.) But the only third-person narratives I can think of post-UTH are Wheat Kings and Fiddler's Green, neither of which has a fictional basis.

So I was a-wondering ... and thinking I am obviously spending too much time with the Hip.... Is this GD developing his skills, or a sign that someone else wrote about half the UTH lyrics?

[vicariousmartyr]

Awww, I wanna participate!

You're no fun.

[lord brazle]

:lol:

So what exactly are ya asking?

On the EP, Downie wrote the lyrics to the majority of the songs except Last American Exit, Smalltown Bringdown and Evelyn which Sinclair wrote both music and words to. From UTH and on it credits the entire band as writing the songs (and the music I guess). I believe Downie is the primary lyric-man but I can't say for sure that the other members didn't write one or two songs or, at least, throw some couplets at him.

I don't think it's a coincidence that they recorded UTH in Memphis and the majority of the songs have a blues-feel to them. They were inspired by their surroundings? It's possible. But I did some hunting anyway and the majority of the people in the "Thanks" section are just mixers/engineers and/or artists... I thought maybe one of them might've been a songwriter (from the Memphis area) but I guess not. Although there is quite a difference from EP to UTH like you noted, I can't really say for sure cuz of the 2 year span. They probably played around with some of those songs for the whole 2 years or whatever.

But I do believe we all may be able to separate the UTH songs into two sections; um, something like "prosaic" and... "Downie". Ha! What I mean is some songs have poetic phrases and others do not. If we went with the EP stance and said Sinclair wrote the songs, the "prosaic" lyrics, and Downie wrote the poems, the "not-all-prosaic" lyrics, we might be able to bullshit a list like this...

UTH

Blow At High Dough (Sinclair)
I'll Believe In You (Sinclair/Downie)
NOIS (Downie)
38 Years Old (Sinclair/Downie)
She Didn't Know (Downie)
Boots Or Hearts (Sinclair)
Everytime You Go (Downie)
When The Weight Comes Down (Sinclair/Downie)
Trickle Down (Downie)
Another Midnight (Downie)
Opiated (Downie)

The ones that have both names are the ones I can't decide on. But I'm sure other fans will provide their opinions on what they think about the above list. I can reply again with my reasoning for this list if people don't get why I think Downie is this one and Sinclair is that one. It's just too much to type now and I've been thinking about this for the last hour. lol.

[skippy the wonder dog]

Awww, I wanna participate!

You're no fun.

I didn't think anyone would take me literally....

[Lizard King]

I really like those fictional ballads, they make for cool songs, I wish they did more of those. Thats definitely my favorite album, I love the songs the music, its a great driving album.....UTH Rules! :thumb:

[skippy the wonder dog]

Funny, Brazle, my list would be almost completely opposite. I'd nominate these as possibly not GD lyrics: I'll Believe in You, She Didn't Know, Another Midnight, Opiated, and perhaps Every Time You Go. These are the ones where the approach is completely different.

Maybe it's just me. :oops:

[lord brazle]

Well, it depends I guess on how you're classifying them. I estimated my list by the use of words. The ones distinctly by Sinclair not really using anything other than everyday speech and the ones by Downie being more artsy. Maybe I'm hyping up Downie too much but, according to the EP, the ones written by him were a little more crafty than the ones written by Sinclair. It's all estimation though, there's no evidence. Were you talking about storyline or something else?

[skippy the wonder dog]

The ones I'm curious about are all written third-person, which GD almost never does. So I'm wondering if this was something he did for a while or if someone else (Gord Sinclair being the likely suspect) wrote those lyrics.

Blow at High Dough or Boots and Hearts, for example, may use everyday speech but also contain the wordplay and humour I expect from GD. (e.g. fingers and toes, the forty things we share.)

Lyrically speaking, there's a pretty huge difference between anything on UTH and latter-day stuff like 11th Fret or Makeshift. But this is all just speculation, really, unless someone knows the details behind the cryptic "all songs by the Tragically Hip."

[hotmetal401]

My take on Up To Here/Road Apples is that the songs that we still kinda hear today are songs that GD penned. He has a hard enough time remembering his own lyric , so imagine what its like trying to do somebody elses.

With that in mind, I'd give Sinclair credits for Believe, Weight, Trickle Down, and Another Midnight. She Didn't Know is also a possibility, but I think I read somewhere that Paul brought in the music to that, so there's a good chance GD wrote the lyrics (or maybe Paul did!)

I'm pretty sure Opiated was written in Memphis, by GD. New O and 38 are for sure by him. Blow I'd give to him too, because I think I heard him explain the name once (maybe on the first Egos and Icons... maybe not).

That leaves Boots and Everytime. It's a toss up, but my vote goes to Downie

I'm could be imagining things, but I thought I read after Fully Completely Gord was the official full time lyricist.

Doing a lot of imagining

Pat

[akoso]

At the Cleveland show, Hugh asked Bobby if he wrote the lyrics for Fireworks and Bobby said that he has never written any lyrics and, in addition, that Gord D had written all of the lyrics since album x (sorry, I can't remember what album it was, but I think it was Road Apples... either way, one of the earlier ones).

Although that doesn't help distinguish which UTH lyrics are from Gord D and which are not, it at least confirms that there is a high chance that some of them are not Gord D's words.

Anthony

[lord brazle]

At the Cleveland show, Hugh asked Bobby if he wrote the lyrics for Fireworks and Bobby said that he has never written any lyrics and, in addition, that Gord D had written all of the lyrics since album x (sorry, I can't remember what album it was, but I think it was Road Apples... either way, one of the earlier ones).

Although that doesn't help distinguish which UTH lyrics are from Gord D and which are not, it at least confirms that there is a high chance that some of them are not Gord D's words.

Anthony

It makes sense if RA was the last album written as a group effort and that Fully was primarily Downie, as with all albums afterwards. It looks that way if ya look at the lyrics. Well, to me, at least...

A question though; why did Hugh ask Bobby if he wrote Fireworks? Or did I miss something?

And where is everyone else on the Hipbase? cratch:

Come on! We're discussing the Hip, you freeloaders! :jump

[Tthip]

I just ran across this:

Gord Sinclair wrote:
Times Are Passing Us By
Running For My Life
Waltz For Juliette
Small Town Bringdown
Last American Exit

Paul wrote:
She Didn't Know
When The Weight Comes Down

[skippy the wonder dog]

I woulda thunk that GD writing the lyrics full-time started on Road Apples.

[Hugh23]

At the Cleveland show, Hugh asked Bobby if he wrote the lyrics for Fireworks and Bobby said that he has never written any lyrics and, in addition, that Gord D had written all of the lyrics since album x (sorry, I can't remember what album it was, but I think it was Road Apples... either way, one of the earlier ones).

Although that doesn't help distinguish which UTH lyrics are from Gord D and which are not, it at least confirms that there is a high chance that some of them are not Gord D's words.

Anthony

It makes sense if RA was the last album written as a group effort and that Fully was primarily Downie, as with all albums afterwards. It looks that way if ya look at the lyrics. Well, to me, at least...

A question though; why did Hugh ask Bobby if he wrote Fireworks? Or did I miss something?

And where is everyone else on the Hipbase? cratch:

Come on! We're discussing the Hip, you freeloaders! :jump

'Fireworks' was my 5 year old son's favorite song until he heard 'Gus'. These are his # 1 and 2 favorites and they both rank in my top 10. (My son and daughter are both well versed Hip fans).

I had heard a rumor that Robbie wrote 'Fireworks' and I wanted to confirm this. That is when Robbie stated that Gord had written practically all The Hip's lyrics.

[The Darkest Canuck]

i dunno, Blow and Fireworks just seem so "Gord", especially Blow.