[direwolf74]

Personally, I have little use for re-issues unless they come equipped with substantial 'new' material from the vaults: demos, alternate tracks, unreleased songs, etc.. I'm not interested in the Hip as a nostalgia band.

A nostalgia band is what they are now. The whole Fully Completely thing was totally in that vein. One unreleased song (Radio Show). Plus a different version of So Hard Done By. Which is to say, a nostalgia re-release. I don't like it either. But it's what they are now.

I wouldn't exactly call them a nostalgia band yet, as they're still cranking out new material every few years. And to be fair, every time they tour a new album, the set is usually pretty heavy on the newer material-- at least during the first leg. The reissue thing doesn't bother me. Every band does it these days, including the mighty Pearl Jam. That being said, the Hip's reliance on lazy, radio-friendly setlists over the last few years has them sitting dangerously close to nostalgia act territory. I pray it doesn't get to that point, but man, they really need to get this new album out soon and do a proper tour. And for the love of humanity, would it kill them to play some deep cuts once in a while? All we want is a little variety. Give the setlist duties back to Gord Sinclair where they belong.

[Killer Whale Tank]

I was very disappointed in the Vancouver NFPA show, in the sense that they hardly played any of the new music. (Gord was also in 'screaming' mode at that point, so that didn't help, but my main problem was the reliance on the old staples). My thing is, I've heard the old classics live many, many times. I don't particularly feel like dropping $150 to hear them again, unless I can expect the old chestnuts to be re-interpreted in some interesting way - which has not typically happened.

Re-issues don't trouble me, I just won't buy them in the absence of significant unreleased 'bonus' tracks.

I think the Hip ARE a nostalgia act in the specific sense that the fans coming to the shows are overwhelmingly middle-aged people going to see the band in order to re-live the Greatest Hits from their youth. There's a reason the set-lists are so bland; that's all that the broad majority of the crowd wants to hear. In other words, the paying customer thinks of them as a nostalgia act. That puts huge financial pressure on them to operate as a nostalgia act.

I've always felt the Hip did not really have the fan-base they deserve, which is to say a fan-base that is actually interested in music. Most Hip 'fans' are casual FM radio listeners, the 'AC-DC' crowd that just wants power chords and safe formulas. The result is what you see: a band whose new music remains pretty good - NFPA was an intense, urgent, mature record - but whose new music is only of interest to die-hards like people on this board, and therefore tends to get devalued, because it's not what's driving the bus.

If I were running the Hip, I would make an explicit and well-publicized break with the old patterns. E.g., I'd do an all-acoustic tour, fundamentally re-interpreting the old songs, letting everyone know that if they come to the show they will NOT be hearing kick-ass power-chord rock. Put out a country-tinged album in the 'Blue Rodeo' vein. Or whatever; something that genuinely changes the channel on fan expectations. This might allow for a re-set and find the band some new audiences. (And no, 'World Container' did not constitute a genuine boundary-changing album - all it did was layer grotesque strings, and Bob Rock's Classic Rawk piano and cheesy production values, atop the Hip's basic formula. Adding layers of '70s rock tackiness is NOT what I have in mind).

[direwolf74]

I was very disappointed in the Vancouver NFPA show, in the sense that they hardly played any of the new music. (Gord was also in 'screaming' mode at that point, so that didn't help, but my main problem was the reliance on the old staples). My thing is, I've heard the old classics live many, many times. I don't particularly feel like dropping $150 to hear them again, unless I can expect the old chestnuts to be re-interpreted in some interesting way - which has not typically happened.

Re-issues don't trouble me, I just won't buy them in the absence of significant unreleased 'bonus' tracks.

I think the Hip ARE a nostalgia act in the specific sense that the fans coming to the shows are overwhelmingly middle-aged people going to see the band in order to re-live the Greatest Hits from their youth. There's a reason the set-lists are so bland; that's all that the broad majority of the crowd wants to hear. In other words, the paying customer thinks of them as a nostalgia act. That puts huge financial pressure on them to operate as a nostalgia act.

I've always felt the Hip did not really have the fan-base they deserve, which is to say a fan-base that is actually interested in music. Most Hip 'fans' are casual FM radio listeners, the 'AC-DC' crowd that just wants power chords and safe formulas. The result is what you see: a band whose new music remains pretty good - NFPA was an intense, urgent, mature record - but whose new music is only of interest to die-hards like people on this board, and therefore tends to get devalued, because it's not what's driving the bus.

If I were running the Hip, I would make an explicit and well-publicized break with the old patterns. E.g., I'd do an all-acoustic tour, fundamentally re-interpreting the old songs, letting everyone know that if they come to the show they will NOT be hearing kick-ass power-chord rock. Put out a country-tinged album in the 'Blue Rodeo' vein. Or whatever; something that genuinely changes the channel on fan expectations. This might allow for a re-set and find the band some new audiences. (And no, 'World Container' did not constitute a genuine boundary-changing album - all it did was layer grotesque strings, and Bob Rock's Classic Rawk piano and cheesy production values, atop the Hip's basic formula. Adding layers of '70s rock tackiness is NOT what I have in mind).

Excellent post! I agree with pretty much all of this. It's strange how quickly their shows morphed into the boring, hits-laden sets we're seeing today. As recently as 2009 they were still the golden standard for mixing it up from night to night. The We Are the Same tour was one of the best they've ever done in terms of the setlists. I also really enjoyed the short acoustic sets they were doing at that time. It feels like that was the last tour where the band really challenged themselves and made things interesting. Then suddenly around 2011-ish, it all changed. I know they handed the setlist duties over to Rob Baker around that time, and maybe they hired new management and their business plan changed. Whatever the case, it totally sucked the life out of their live show. Of course Gord's recent vocal problems haven't helped either. Personally I'm not interested in seeing them live anymore unless they start mixing things up again, which sadly might not happen at this point in their career. However, I still think they're great songwriters. As long as these guys continue making new music, I'll keep buying the records. Just fix the live show and all will be right with the universe.

[gsmacleod]

I've been following them since UTH and have seen them several times - I haven't been disappointed in any show but would certainly love to see some of the less played material. In fact, that was the big draw for me with the FC tour in that I would get to see several songs I had never seen live.

It was also nice on the FC tour that they didn't play NOIS - even though I love it (and it was the first song I learned on guitar) I'd rather see something else. Now, if they wanted to go back to playing new songs in NOIS I'd love that or even a full on rant but I think those days are gone.

Ultimately, I'm probably going to catch them every time I can - mainly because I'm afraid of missing a great show and I don't want to miss them whenever the last tour happens to be.

I love pretty much everything in their catalogue - recently been listening to everything chronologically and find myself smiling and singing along to it all. Some of it took a couple of listens to appreciate when it was released but I expect I'll enjoy whatever comes on the new album and would love to see another Evening with at some point.

Sad to hear how great the set lists were with WATS - the Halifax show was canceled so I missed them that tour.

Shane

[Dark Canuck17]

This thread went off the tracks several posts ago...guess that is what happens when there is not any real news!

[pars9393]

they for some reason feel a lot of the old stuff they dont play is crap? pearl jam does not feel that way and that is why they aren't afraid to touch anything in their back catalog

[sean.bonner]

Chagrin Falls.
Fight.
Use It Up.
Sherpa.
Emperor Penguin.
Tiger The Lion.
Daredevil.
Thugs.
The Luxury.
No Threat.
Vaccination Scar.
You're Everywhere
Bring It All Back.

PLZ PLAY ALL OF THE ABOVE + MORE.

thankyou

[gsmacleod]

they for some reason feel a lot of the old stuff they dont play is crap? pearl jam does not feel that way and that is why they aren't afraid to touch anything in their back catalog

I wonder if it is they think it's not worth playing or its just a matter of having a bunch of songs ready for a tour and relying on what you know people want to hear. Most people going to a show are going to complain if they don't hear the major songs through PP. You can hear it when the crowd goes silent when they don't recognize the opening bars of the next song even when it's something many here would love to hear.

I would love for more variety and there's several gems I would love to see them dust off. A quick look at the stats from the NFPA shows they played 55 different songs with an average set of 23 songs. There were 12 songs that made an appearance most nights (>90%), another 8 likely to be played (>50%) so 35 songs that saw limited play. Assuming you got all 12 from the first group and 4 from the second, that's still 7 songs that fall into the rarer category.

Certainly not PJ level variety but compared to some bands that tour the same setlist every night, not terrible either.

Shane

[pars9393]

I totally agree with you Shane but it still does not hide the fact that there are older songs that they simply will not play no matter what and people do want to hear them

[fingernailsonhull]

Personally, I have little use for re-issues unless they come equipped with substantial 'new' material from the vaults: demos, alternate tracks, unreleased songs, etc.. I'm not interested in the Hip as a nostalgia band.

A nostalgia band is what they are now. The whole Fully Completely thing was totally in that vein. One unreleased song (Radio Show). Plus a different version of So Hard Done By. Which is to say, a nostalgia re-release. I don't like it either. But it's what they are now.

I wouldn't exactly call them a nostalgia band yet, as they're still cranking out new material every few years. And to be fair, every time they tour a new album, the set is usually pretty heavy on the newer material-- at least during the first leg. The reissue thing doesn't bother me. Every band does it these days, including the mighty Pearl Jam. That being said, the Hip's reliance on lazy, radio-friendly setlists over the last few years has them sitting dangerously close to nostalgia act territory. I pray it doesn't get to that point, but man, they really need to get this new album out soon and do a proper tour. And for the love of humanity, would it kill them to play some deep cuts once in a while? All we want is a little variety. Give the setlist duties back to Gord Sinclair where they belong.

I guess what I meant is that they are marketed as a nostalgia band now. Little to no promotion for their new stuff. It gets played on the tour, which is good. But I saw way more promo for the Fully Completely rerelease than I did for Now For Plan A. They are presented as a nostalgia band, even if they're still producing pretty good new music.

[Killer Whale Tank]

Yes, well, that's certainly what their commercial profile is. The concert-goers are almost all middle-aged "fans" looking to hear the hits. The Hip are respected as "legends," but as with other "legendary" bands like the Guess Who, only a handful of hard-core fans pay any attention to the new stuff. The old "fans" want new Hip to sound EXACTLY like Fully Completely, and when it doesn't, tune out. Young people see the Hip as an old guys' band irrelevant to their concerns. It's a bad combination, albeit one that befalls most bands eventually. Even U2 - which walked that tightrope of commercial relevance longer than most - has succumbed to irrelevance and therefore nostalgia.

So I don't blame the marketers. Only if the Hip do something that really breaks the mould, would there be an opportunity to "rebrand" them as something other than a nostalgia act. Breaking the formula is the only way out; this is what Bob Dylan did, for instance, completely reconstructing his entire approach and image and finding whole new audiences as a result. Nick Lowe did the same thing. The Hip, though, don't seem ready to go out on that kind of limb.

[gsmacleod]

I totally agree with you Shane but it still does not hide the fact that there are older songs that they simply will not play no matter what and people do want to hear them

I agree - there are a bunch of older songs I'd love to hear live and wish they'd dust them off! That was part of the reason I really enjoyed the FC tour as there were several songs I had always wanted to see live.

There's also some newer songs I've never heard live that I'd like to see at some point as well. I'd start with Sean's list and go from there!

Shane

[direwolf74]

Only if the Hip do something that really breaks the mould, would there be an opportunity to "rebrand" them as something other than a nostalgia act. Breaking the formula is the only way out; this is what Bob Dylan did, for instance, completely reconstructing his entire approach and image and finding whole new audiences as a result. Nick Lowe did the same thing. The Hip, though, don't seem ready to go out on that kind of limb.

Since their new album was produced by indie-rock royalty Kevin Drew, I wonder if perhaps they'll throw us a curveball or two on this one. Maybe Drew was able to challenge them a bit more than someone like Bob Rock would. It would certainly be interesting to hear a complete left turn from the Hip in regards to their usual style. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[robbroncs]

Only if the Hip do something that really breaks the mould, would there be an opportunity to "rebrand" them as something other than a nostalgia act. Breaking the formula is the only way out; this is what Bob Dylan did, for instance, completely reconstructing his entire approach and image and finding whole new audiences as a result. Nick Lowe did the same thing. The Hip, though, don't seem ready to go out on that kind of limb.

Since their new album was produced by indie-rock royalty Kevin Drew, I wonder if perhaps they'll throw us a curveball or two on this one. Maybe Drew was able to challenge them a bit more than someone like Bob Rock would. It would certainly be interesting to hear a complete left turn from the Hip in regards to their usual style. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

yes!!!! it most definitely will come down to producer. Chris Walla did a fantastic job with Gord's third release.

or who's a good blues producer?...that would be MAJOR :jump

[Christian Schutz]

I've always wished that Lou Reed had produced the Hip. He's had the rock and roll attitude, he was a poet, and he was a no bullshit dual guitar bass drum master. Lived close by in NYC. Listen to the way the album "Ecstacy" sounds. Man, oh, man. The first cut is a Stones-y rave-up, the track "White Prism" comes out wailing and then settles into a steady groove. He could have done marvelous work had they collaborated.

Really, give it a listen. It's pretty amazing. If you don't have it, Apple Music is free for 90 days. Check. It. Out!