[The Horrible Esthete]

I don't get all you people who hate In View so much. its a damn happy song, and i can't help but smile when i hear it.

ohh and to the guy dissing the wherewithal and fire in the hole, you just lost any and all credibility by bashing those tunes...

Nothing like losing credibility with a guy who likes "In View" because it's "damn happy".

How will I sleep tonight?

[day_for_night]

lol, you bash tunes that are hailed by many as classic hip songs, and which they play with great regularity as encore tracks (especially FITH)...

but sorry if i didnt justify my reasons for liking for a song enough for you for you to consider my opinion valid. hows this: its a completely new sound for the hip, and a great tangent for them to go off on. while not initially appealing, i've found it grows on you over time. Its positive (or "happy" as i termed originally, but which you obviously though was too pedestrian a phrase).

lyrics like the following are heartfelt without being overly cheesy:

I am of you
You are always in view
Yea, I am my will
But you are in everything I do

Gord sings with sincerity and his voice soars on this, as many of the tracks on world container.


does that satisfy you?


ohh, and not providing any insight as to why a tune is horrible doesn't lend you much credibility either. sorry, but i can't stand criticism when no basis is provided for it.

[cferneyh]

ohh, and not providing any insight as to why a tune is horrible doesn't lend you much credibility either. sorry, but i can't stand criticism when no basis is provided for it.

Esthete actually posted a very good dissertation on why he didn't like the song in the In View thread. I don't necessarily agree with him, but it was a helluva explanation as to where he's coming from.

Well, I listened and I listened, and waited before posting. I have listened some more, and have waited again.

I am confused.

I don't want to post in ignorance of something that will soon reveal itself to me, something that I cannot yet see. Is this to be taken at face value? Or is this a statement? A commentary, perhaps?

Is "In View" satire?

I hesitate to judge until I hear it in the context of World Container; but in attempt to impart intitial impressions, all I can do is use previous material as context.

Each Hip record has songs that I don't particularly care for. In fact, there are as many songs on IBE that I don't dig as ones I do. That's fine by me. I don't expect to be enamored with everything my favorite band turns out, nor do I demand that Gord and the boys forever be able to match the bar they've set for themelves -- that bar is damn high.

Yet whenever, in my humble estimation, they've fallen short of their own 'bar' in the past, it usually was because it didn't suit my particular taste -- the palate which they themselves are partly responsible for developing. It has never been because I felt they had abandoned a part of their essence, or because they had been disloyal to what they are. Regardless, this much is true: The Hip started as a guitar-driven ROCK band -- a strightforward, gritty rock band. And to their credit, they have "changed direction" and "evolved" plenty over their careers, and it has always kept them AHEAD of the curve; it has kept them at the dark, foggy reaches of POP music. They have been emotional, cerebral, esoteric, and sublime. They have been coscientious, political, and culturally aware. And at times, they have sprinkled some "POP" into what has otherwise been very "artfully sublime" music -- music that appeared to intentionally keep itself at arm's-legth from the mainstream. I think of the "ballad standard" of a Bobcaygeon, I think of the homogenous bounce of a "We'll Go Too"; I think of the gimmicky intro-hook of Chagrin Falls; there may be a little pop "flavor at times, but it was never a product that was anything but guitar-driven rock' n' roll.

"In View", however, has me wondering. It has my head spinning. If it's a joke, it's a friggin' mean joke. Suddenly (though I was not the least bit worried about the implications of Bob Rock's involvement before hearing this single), I am wondering about that decision and what it means to this band's "evolution". I wonder if, as skippy suggests, if IBE's title is now much more poignant that we all might have realized.

This is POP, music, first and foremost. It appears to be a blatant stab mainstream, a Billboard effort. It smacks of giving up on the ART, and succumbing to things like "formula" and "demographic" and "packaged" sound, and THAT is something I have would never have anticipated ever thinking about a Hip song.

Yeah -- a Tragically Hip Bubblegum Rock Pop Tune is a GOOD Bubblegum Rock Pop Tune. It's tight, it's BIG, it's catchy as hell -- it's the legendary Phil Spectresque "wall of sound" that The Hip, true to form, execute and deliver with mastry. SO WHAT? In terms of artistic merit, it has LITTLE.

Best-case scenario, this is some sort of thinly-veiled (and sadistic)commentary on the current music industry. I hope that, at the very least, it is a blatant and unabashed one-time cash-grab that earns them the much-deserved financial security they had never quite realized at the expense of the unenlightened US market, so they can put their children through college and be confortable into their grey days. Perhaps then, they might continue with periodic musical ART projects they have thus far contributed to our culture.

If, however, this is just the next chapter in Hipstory, then I fear our beloved band has just "jumped the shark".

[day_for_night]

^
|
actually, that critique has absolutely no substance whatsoever. there is no mention of song structure, lyrics...hell even sound. it basically boils down to "this is pop, and i don't like it". which is fine, except its an opinion with nothing backing it up. reminds me of people who love indie bands until they become popular or make a single that is remotely accessible, then turn on the band 'cause they 'sold out'. just because a song is accessible doesn't make it bad.

ps. if all pop was this good, then there wouldn't be the negative connotation associated with the word .

[grimes]

I don't think I ever posted in this thread, so now that I've had a few months to digest the album here's my thoughts:

Family Band rocks. No other way to describe it. My favourite Hip tune in a while.
I'm also really high on Ocean, Last Night, and WC. Rink, Drop-off, Luv(sic), and Fly are solid as well. And Pretend, Kids, and In View have been skips for me lately.

Re: the In View debate. I can't explain why I don't really like it, the song just doesn't do much for me. It's still better than a lot of the stuff out there these days, but as far as Hip songs go it's not one of my favourites.

[direwolf74]

^
just because a song is accessible doesn't make it bad. if all pop was this good, then there wouldn't be the negative connotation associated with the word .

I definitely agree with you there. "In View" certainly isn't the greatest Hip song ever made (far from it), but you couldn't find a more perfectly written pop-rock tune. The lyrics may be simpler than the average Hip song, but they seem to come from a very honest place, and Gord sings it so passionately that I can't help but like it. It's a cool little song, and I think it fits in nicely with the rest of the album.

But I can certainly understand why people aren't keen on it.

[skippy the wonder dog]

^
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actually, that critique has absolutely no substance whatsoever.

That critique has more substance than any of the drivel you've posted so far.

"It grows on you" isn't a statement of substance. Where's your intelligent commentary on "song structure?" Where's your intelligent analysis of the lyrics?

You're demanding substance while providing nothing of substance yourself, and then, when an intelligent critique is provided, you simply dismiss it. That's tantamount to an admission that you're afraid of the deep end because you never learned to swim.

[The Horrible Esthete]

^
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actually, that critique has absolutely no substance whatsoever. there is no mention of song structure, lyrics...hell even sound. it basically boils down to "this is pop, and i don't like it". which is fine, except its an opinion with nothing backing it up. reminds me of people who love indie bands until they become popular or make a single that is remotely accessible, then turn on the band 'cause they 'sold out'. just because a song is accessible doesn't make it bad.

ps. if all pop was this good, then there wouldn't be the negative connotation associated with the word .

If you pay any sort of attention at all, I have made gobs of posts that dissect the anatomy of songs in terms of structure and arrangement, and have done so from both the perspectives of a longtime admirer of the rock landscape, and also from the perspective of a musician and guitarist. And I would venture to say that I tend do this far more often than the average Hipbaser.

Did you even care to read what I posted about LNIDYDLM before I quipped about "Bastard" and "FITH"? Probably not, as you strike me as the type who is more concerned with firing off knee-jerk barbs when he happens upon something that clashes with his own tastes than he is with reading for comprehension.

This particular exchange, if you pull your head out of your ass long enough to recognize, didn't begin with me questioning the validity of your opinion. It began with you slamming my "credibility" based on an off-the-cuff comment I made regarding -- yes -- my personal taste as it applies to the Hip's material (which is in no way to be mistaken for an objective critique of the music, which I have also volunteered countless times on these pages).

It's laughable that you made the intial attack on an opinion of mine, and then have the gall to admonish ME for doing just that to you, when I was only sarcastically dishing it back.

And it's absolutely hysterical that in doing so, you further attempt to discredit me by arguing that a couple of the songs I dislike are "popular" and "frequently played", as if that means anything.

:roll:

[day_for_night]

^
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actually, that critique has absolutely no substance whatsoever.

That critique has more substance than any of the drivel you've posted so far.

"It grows on you" isn't a statement of substance. Where's your intelligent commentary on "song structure?" Where's your intelligent analysis of the lyrics?

You're demanding substance while providing nothing of substance yourself, and then, when an intelligent critique is provided, you simply dismiss it. That's tantamount to an admission that you're afraid of the deep end because you never learned to swim.

first, read a few posts up. i look at specific lyrics, describe the sound of the song as being something new for the band...i was only briefly expanding on the intial comment i made, not making some grand review.

and just because i demand substance doesnt mean i have to provide it. i'm not the one calling the song "worse than coconut cream" for no apparent reason (or none that i have yet to see, despite several responses from the horrible esthete).


now, on to the person who actually belongs in this discussion

If you pay any sort of attention at all, I have made gobs of posts that dissect the anatomy of songs in terms of structure and arrangement, and have done so from both the perspectives of a longtime admirer of the rock landscape, and also from the perspective of a musician and guitarist. And I would venture to say that I tend do this far more often than the average Hipbaser.

Escuse me for not digging through your threads to look at what you've said in the past. i was refering to the comment at hand.

Did you even care to read what I posted about LNIDYDLM before I quipped about "Bastard" and "FITH"? Probably not, as you strike me as the type who is more concerned with firing off knee-jerk barbs when he happens upon something that clashes with his own tastes than he is with reading for comprehension.

And you strike me as an elitist who can't handle it when your opinion is called into question. with a name like 'the horrible esthete' its obvious you hold yourself in rather high regard.

This particular exchange, if you pull your head out of your ass long enough to recognize, didn't begin with me questioning the validity of your opinion. It began with you slamming my "credibility" based on an off-the-cuff comment I made regarding -- yes -- my personal taste as it applies to the Hip's material (which is in no way to be mistaken for an objective critique of the music, which I have also volunteered countless times on these pages).

You can't expect to make comments like that and not get a reaction here on a board full of hip fans. yah, i care about their music, and when i see it getting bashed for no apparent reason that i saw, i call it into question.

It's laughable that you made the intial attack on an opinion of mine, and then have the gall to admonish ME for doing just that to you, when I was only sarcastically dishing it back.

I go back again to you holding yourself in obvious high regard...trying to be the 'clever, whitty guy on the message board'. Maybe i was only being cheeky to begin with...

And it's absolutely hysterical that in doing so, you further attempt to discredit me by arguing that a couple of the songs I dislike are "popular" and "frequently played", as if that means anything.

Read what i said again. Yes, i said they're popular with hip fans (who i think we can both agree, are much more musically savy than the average joe off the street). Second, I said they're played regularly as encores...meaing the band likes those songs, too. Are you honestly gonna say your judgement reins supreme over theirs? That's a bit of a strech if you believe that...

[Roy-at-tth]

This is kinda silly guys.

C'mon, it's the holiday season -- I honestly see where you both are coming from. Peace?

</sappy attempt at peacekeeping>

[MAverick]

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg...820r8a348p

[chris]

Online reviews sometimes go missing... so here's what AllMusic said:

World Container, the Tragically Hip's eleventh studio LP, finds the Canadian quintet going for their biggest sound to date. Sure, their previous two albums--2002's In Violet Light and 2004's In Between Evolution--found the band experimenting with a larger guitar-driven sound, but not in the same way that World Container reaches for the brightest sound imaginable. This ten-song set comes off with as much fever as the band's live shows, and frontman Gordon Downie finally captures his bonafide rock star appeal as a performer on record! Songs such as "Yer Not the Ocean" and "In View" retain that intoxicating energy that's made the Hip one of the decade's favorite concert draws. Working with veteran rock producer Bob Rock (Mötley Crüe, Metallica), was one smart move. As he did with Mötley Crüe's Dr. Feelgood album, Rock zeroed in on what makes the Tragically Hip such a vital rock band--the dual guitar attack of Paul Langlois and Paul Baker, and Downie's clever and poetic state of mind as expressed in his singing--and drew it in, forcing the Hip to embrace a sonically richer sound while doing some soul searching for what rock & roll ultimately means to them. The swaggering hard rock leanings of "The Drop-Off are as classic as anything from Day for Night, while gritty, anthemic moments like "The Kids Don't Get It" and "Luv (sic)" define the band's newfound rawness. "The Lonely End of the Rink," which debuted on Hockey Night In Canada one week prior to the album's Canadian release in October 2006, continues on that path with its U2-like, arena-sized guitar riffs, and Downie, too, has never sounded better. The poetic obliqueness that's carried his lyrics since the Hip's 1983 inception has obviously made him a Canadian celebrity, but Rock tossed such dramatics aside, encouraging Downie to really rip it all apart and say things in a more straightforward fashion. Getting back to a simple approach might have been a difficult find at first, but World Container does it all without losing sight of what the Tragically Hip has achieved in their 20-plus years in the business, once again solidifying their mark on alternative rock.

[skippy the wonder dog]

You're demanding substance while providing nothing of substance yourself, and then, when an intelligent critique is provided, you simply dismiss it. That's tantamount to an admission that you're afraid of the deep end because you never learned to swim.

first, read a few posts up. i look at specific lyrics, describe the sound of the song as being something new for the band...

Well, aren't you just Greil fucking Marcus.

Your insightful, incisive commentary on the lyrics was, in fact, "lyrics like the following are heartfelt without being overly cheesy."

That's pretty fucking profound, friend, and I'm particularly impressed at the way you provided a frame of reference for your value judgments. On the one hand we have, I suppose, Cheez-Whiz, and on the other, In View. I'm glad someone, at least, can tell the difference.

And then to go on, by way of discussing "song structure," to such a brilliant insight as "its a completely new sound for the hip."

Hot damn! And does the sun also rise in the east?

Instead of typing out my derision, of course, I could simply have repeated what you wrote:

Escuse me for not digging through your threads to look at what you've said in the past. i was refering to the comment at hand.

But I didn't, for two reasons. Derision is fun, and furthermore, I can spell.

[VioletlightHeron]

Zing! Skippy made another funny :lol: :lol:

Edit: and he pulled a Gord as well, inserting an obscure person/character into the arguement. Who the bleep is Greil Marcus? :lol:

[skippy the wonder dog]

Greil Marcus, ubercritic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greil_Marcus