[hipkid33]

I have a black 4GB nano and I love it. I like the idea of the flash storage (i.e. no mechanical parts) and flash can theroetically be written to somewhere in the neighborhood of a million times. Your battery will puke before you write that much. I've never used any other, but my roommate has an old iRiver 30 GB that he loves. The iTunes/ipod interface work together fairly well on my machine (PC) and the iPod will only work with iTunes. iTunes store music on the iPod differently than other players, its not a simple tree format, it renames the files and they are impossible to tell when you are browsing the drive through window explorer. iTunes can get a bit buggy at times, but I have an enormous library.

For those who are brave, there is an opensource iPod firmware at http://www.rockbox.org. The firmware is re-written to the ipod and contains many, many features and it turns the ipod into a "drag-and-drop" interface. It is still under development, but is is usable and relatively stable. I have used it before to check it out, but I uninstalled it because color was not available yet (it is now I believe). Rock box also has firmware for many other players.

Good luck in your search!

[scottitude]

Prior to purchasing my ZM, I did extensive research and found too many down-sides to the iPod.

First, the battery. When the battery fails you have to send the whole gadget back to Apple and pay them to replace it. Actually, at the time, Apple said "too bad - so sad", but has since reconsidered. How kind of them to allow me to pay them to do something I should be able to do myself. My Zm has a user-replacable battery and even came with an extra one.

Next was the limited choice of source files. I could rip my own CDs into their proprietary format or buy music from Apple...in their own proprietary format. Sorry, but I doubt that all the iPod-lovers would accept and champion any other product so limited in its use. Would you buy a car that could only use one brand of gasoline, or only be driven on a particular kind of road-surface?

As a consumer, I found those two issues alone to be arrogant and insulting, and began to look at other options. I found it curious that Creative published more technical info than Apple; if it's the best DAP in the world, why intentionally hide the relevant sound-reproduction data? Perhaps it's not all it's cracked up to be?

Most of my MP3s are ripped at 320 kbps and unless it's a live Hip track from theHundredthMeridian, 192 kbps is as low as I'll go. While it's still a "lossy" file, there is a distinct difference in the audio quality at higher bitrates.

But the point is moot; if you believe that Steve Jobs is the Messiah and anything he does is automatically better than anything anyone else does, you'll always counter every argument whether it's valid or not.

Ultimately, lilbones and anyone else should do their own research, consider facts more than people's opinions, and buy the DAP that best suits their needs.

[Billy]

Perhaps the Zen has bridged the gap, but the Nomad was such a piece of garbage I'll never give Creative another chance. And given the fact that the company bleeds red ink, I'm guessing I'm not the only one who has had poor experiences with their products.

I used to own a Nomad Jukebox back in 2002, and looking back I can say it certainly had it's limitations, but at the time I thought it was the cats meow.

When I upgraded to my Archos Gmini400 last spring, I did lots of research, and after it was all said and done I decided the Gmini was the superior product. I was almost swayed into buying an Ipod because of the market saturation and number of supporting products and companies, but I'm sure glad I didn't go that route. My Gmini doesn't require any software to upload music...I just set to act as a hardrive, and windows automatically detects it, and it's drag & drop from there. If I want to use Itunes or Windows Media Player as an interface, I can adjust my settings to do so.

The other thing I like so much about my player, aside from all the bundled goodies it already has, and the programmed gems I mentioned in an earlier post, is that it will play Divx files. I have downloaded a shitload of tv shows and movies and have watched them on my daily commute.

I won't knock you or anyone else for buying the product you did, as long as you're happy with it, then it's the right product for you.

[cferneyh]

Next was the limited choice of source files. I could rip my own CDs into their proprietary format or buy music from Apple...in their own proprietary format. Sorry, but I doubt that all the iPod-lovers would accept and champion any other product so limited in its use. Would you buy a car that could only use one brand of gasoline, or only be driven on a particular kind of road-surface?

Flat out wrong. In iTunes you can rip your CDs in AAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless, WAV, and MP3.

Also, you buy music from Apple in AAC, and then you can do whatever you want with those files once you burn them to CD.

Most of my MP3s are ripped at 320 kbps and unless it's a live Hip track from theHundredthMeridian, 192 kbps is as low as I'll go. While it's still a "lossy" file, there is a distinct difference in the audio quality at higher bitrates.

What's your point? As I stated, you can rip in MP3 format in iTunes, and you can rip at whatever bit rate you choose. 320 isn't some magical number that only Creative allows. If this is your argument that Creative has better sound quality, then you are wrong there too since a 320 bit rate in Creative is the same as a 320 bit rate in iTunes. And, if you chose to use AAC rather than MP3 (again, it is YOUR choice), than a 320 bit rate is actually better in iTunes because AAC files have been proven to be better quality than MP3 files.

Extensive research eh?

[lilbones]

I ended up going with a 30 gb iPod, white for you colourists out there.

I did my research, and figured the evil i knew well was slightly better than the evil i didn't know as well.

Thanks for everybody's help, gave me some things to think about.

[Billy]

I ended up going with a 30 gb iPod, white for you colourists out there.

I did my research, and figured the evil i knew well was slightly better than the evil i didn't know as well.

Thanks for everybody's help, gave me some things to think about.

http://www.rockbox.org/

Check it out...

[thecompletist]

I ended up going with a 30 gb iPod, white for you colourists out there.

I did my research, and figured the evil i knew well was slightly better than the evil i didn't know as well.

Thanks for everybody's help, gave me some things to think about.

http://www.rockbox.org/

Check it out...

My wife and I have a 20gig ipod and I hate itunes unlike the rest of the nation. It doesn't feel right.... it's too bossy...like DO IT MY WAY.... hell I just want to drag and drop like I do with everything else in life..... so I never use it. The kicker is I am good with software and computers... I just always seem to have had issues with folders,synching etc,,, so I will be checking out rockbox right NOW

Jeff

[Billy]

I ended up going with a 30 gb iPod, white for you colourists out there.

I did my research, and figured the evil i knew well was slightly better than the evil i didn't know as well.

Thanks for everybody's help, gave me some things to think about.

http://www.rockbox.org/

Check it out...

My wife and I have a 20gig ipod and I hate itunes unlike the rest of the nation. It doesn't feel right.... it's too bossy...like DO IT MY WAY.... hell I just want to drag and drop like I do with everything else in life..... so I never use it. The kicker is I am good with software and computers... I just always seem to have had issues with folders,synching etc,,, so I will be checking out rockbox right NOW

Jeff

Nevermind that fact that with Rockbox you can play ogg and flac files. They also claim you can get gapless playback...I don't know if they simply mean gapless with ogg or flac files, or mp3 gapless. From what I've gathered, rockbox opens up a bazillion doors to those fortunate enough to have a player that will support it.

Don't let the simple looking gui fool you (I'm not presuming it has for you in particular, but maybe it has to some people). It appears to be an exceptionally powerful firmware with many, many options not typically available.

[Gangrel]

Man, can any thread exist around here without argument?

What I have heard on another board I frequent is that more then one person has commented that the sound quality of the Creative products that are out now are better the the iPods. That you have more control over the graphic equalizer, and the sound is just better.

I myself only have ever used an iPod Shuffle I got for free, but whenever I decided to get an MP3 player I'm going to look at the new Creative M Visions or whatever they are called first.

I mean, best bet is to go to Best Buy and ask to listen to different ones and find which one suits your ear.

[BRoach]

i've got an iPod mini...and just recently got a new car that doesnt have a tape deck. i used to use the tape adapter to listen to my iPod in the car, but needed something more technological to run through the power outlet.

I bought this device called a Monster, which hooks my iPod up to a random radio station, as well as charges the iPod at the same time. My friend works for Future Shop (which is a very good thing), because the store was selling it for $129.99, but with an employee discount, the price went down to $49.99 plus tax. All in all, it came to 57 bucks, and my iPod sounds crystal clear through the car stereo...

It's sickening to know exactly how much money Future Shop is making off of small electronics...(130 plus tax minus 50 plus tax)...but it's nice to have a friend that works there and saved me almost 90 bucks

[scottitude]

Man, can any thread exist around here without argument?<snip>

Not when it involves an Apple product! Don't you understand? Anyone who doesn't own or yearn to own an iPod product is a piece of shit scumbag.

Apparently only a few of us didn't drink the Kool-Aid.

[lilbones]

I like music, sometimes.

[cferneyh]

Man, can any thread exist around here without argument?<snip>

Not when it involves an Apple product! Don't you understand? Anyone who doesn't own or yearn to own an iPod product is a piece of shit scumbag.

Apparently only a few of us didn't drink the Kool-Aid.

Wow.

If you want to interpret our disagreement about the merits (or lackthereof) of an iPod as me thinking that you are a piece of shit scumbag, fine, go ahead.

The simple fact of the matter is that I gave my pro-iPod opinion, and you implied anyone with an iPod is a sheep and anyone with anything other than an iPod is super special and way smarter than the rest of us. Then you went and posted some very misinformed basic "facts" about iPods which I corrected.

Billy put it best when he said as long as you're happy with it, then it's the right product for you.

PS - I LOVED Kool-Aid as a kid. Though we always called it "Freshie".

[scottitude]

Not just you, man, but everybody everywhere that come off a little hostile and refuse to accept or even consider that the iPod is the HUGEST marketing coup ever conceived and the product is successful not because it's truly superior, but because it was marketed effectively.

iPod owners didn't buy a product; they bought an advertising campaign... it came with a free iPod.

I wonder how many current Mac owners bought their Mac after they bought the ipod... That would be an interesting statistic and perhaps, prove my point. I know there are loads of Mac users and many are long-time users but I'm pretty sure that Apples figures would illustrate an upward trend in Mac sales coinciding with the iPods explosion.

The "iPod rules and everything else sucks" rhetoric is all over the Net and has been since Apple reverse-engineered Creative's core product and spent millions (maybe billions) on media ads that convinced the impressionable masses that their lives were pathetic and unfulfilled unless they owned one.

Apple doesn't currently offer a laptop or desktop with the functionality of my old Media Center PC, let alone that of my current one. Sure, I could buy a $2,500 Mac and spend another $1,500 or more on hardware and software to create a media center system but it makes more sense to spend half of that for one bundled system.

Unfortunately, MP3 players and browser preference seem to be the new politics and religion.

Nuthin' but love brutha...I'm just a little edgy 'cause life intervened and I had to sell my Fort York tickets. I got a serious Hip jones...

[cferneyh]

iPod owners didn't buy a product; they bought an advertising campaign... it came with a free iPod.

NO marketing campaign works unless there is something to the product. If the product is crap, the word of mouth and negative publicity will spread faster than any marketing campaign. Everyone knows that the most effective form of marketing is word of mouth. It doesn't matter if you spend billions on TV ads - word of mouth will trump it every time.

I wonder how many current Mac owners bought their Mac after they bought the ipod... That would be an interesting statistic and perhaps, prove my point. I know there are loads of Mac users and many are long-time users but I'm pretty sure that Apples figures would illustrate an upward trend in Mac sales coinciding with the iPods explosion.

I don't follow the logic here. People buying Macs after buying iPods prove what point? Is it not logical that if you are happy with Product A from company X, then you are going to be more likely to buy Product B from company X than company Y?

The "iPod rules and everything else sucks" rhetoric is all over the Net and has been since Apple reverse-engineered Creative's core product and spent millions (maybe billions) on media ads that convinced the impressionable masses that their lives were pathetic and unfulfilled unless they owned one.

What advertising doesn't aim to do this? The whole point of advertising is to convince consumers that there is something out there that they don't have that would make their life better. From cars, to shampoo, to a razor blade with 18 blades.

Unfortunately, MP3 players and browser preference seem to be the new politics and religion.

I think you run in different circles than I do.

Nuthin' but love brutha...I'm just a little edgy 'cause life intervened and I had to sell my Fort York tickets. I got a serious Hip jones...

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