[potsie]

Did Sinclair not write a lot of the stuff early on? Not Downie... Meaning a lot of the iconic lyrics you are probably referring to would not be Downie's lyrics. Someone else also mentioned this in another thread the other day. Something about how it was Sinclair's job to write the lyrics and Downie's job to forget them...

Either way, I think the Hip's lyrics are beautiful but not on the same level as Dylan's. FYI, The Hip are one of my favourite bands and I have never really been a huge Dylan fan. Just know his impact on songwriting..

The quote was from a Rob Baker interview in 1988: "Gord Sinclair writes them, I arrange them, and Gord Downie forgets them." I believe most of UTH is probably written by Downie but RA and everything after is 100% Downie. There is another Rob Baker interview that was done for a master's thesis on Fully Completely in which he stated that Downie announced to the band during the RA sessions that he would no longer sing lyrics written by others in the band.

[potsie]

Sinclair wrote most of the stuff on the EP, but I'm pretty sure Downie took over the lyric writing duties from Up to Here onward, and he really started to hit his stride on Road Apples. Personally I would easily hold up Downie's lyrics against any songwriter or poet on the planet, living or dead; particulary his work on albums like RA, FC, DFN, TATH, PP, CMG, TGB, and just about everything up to and including MMP. Downie and the Hip may not have the worldwide recognition of people like Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Springsteen, or Tom Waits. And obviously they haven't had the same level of cultural impact on popular music. But looking at it strictly from a lyricist/songwriter point of view, I think Gord is most definitely in the same league as those guys.

The cultural impact is an important aspect when examining lyrics and it is difficult to separate. However, side-by-side, on paper alone and ignoring all other context, I believe as you do that Gord's lyrics hold up to Dylan's. I would not state that he is a superior writer, but he is an equal and should be in the same sentence when talking about the all-time great lyricists.

[thebends]

Personally I would easily hold up Downie's lyrics against any songwriter or poet on the planet, living or dead

Huh? Yates, Neruda, Shakespeare ...

[arewhyehen]

Personally I would easily hold up Downie's lyrics against any songwriter or poet on the planet, living or dead

Huh? Yates, Neruda, Shakespeare ...

Haha yeah. This conversation isn't really one that you can have on a Hip forum. It's a bit biased around here. Great to see all the passion and support for the band though.

[potsie]

Personally I would easily hold up Downie's lyrics against any songwriter or poet on the planet, living or dead

Huh? Yates, Neruda, Shakespeare ...

But does The Bard have a sonnet with pork chop in it?

"I lose control, I just can't stop
You look so good, like a big pork chop
Ripped my pants, ripped my shirt
I'm going to eat your mother for desert"

I wonder if Downie would cringe seeing those lyrics?

[direwolf74]

Personally I would easily hold up Downie's lyrics against any songwriter or poet on the planet, living or dead

Huh? Yates, Neruda, Shakespeare ...

Haha. Ok, I'll admit I went a little overboard on the "living or dead" part. But I'd still hold up Gord's lyrics against any of his contemporaries. And I firmly believe he's in the same league as the Dylans/Cohens/Springsteens, etc... I'd actually put John K. Samson in that conversation as well. That guy couldn't write a bad lyric if he tried.

[spottrax]

On the subject of Gord's lyrics: IMO he is among the very best rock lyricists to ever write. His unique way of incorporating his poems into song (starting as live rants then ending up as part of a recorded song) is something I can never recall another frontman doing. This period of Downie (1995-2007 ish) is the best IMO. Not only were we seeing/hearing a live show, we (the audience) became part of the songwriting process. A very unique experience for sure! Of course we (in this forum) are all quite bias but I'd hold him right there with some of my other faves: Springsteen, Westerberg, Lennon/Mac, Paul Weller even newer guys ie Brian Fallon etc.

I'd really like to see a coffee table book of nothing but Downie's lyrics written down (kind of like the McCartney book that came out several years ago)

As far as RRHOF: Never say never. I could see them nominated and not get the nod to be in. Rolling Stone has reviewed most of their albums over the years (mostly favorably). Fans are a small part of the process now, the 2016 tour definitely put them on the map. There are bands/artists in the RRHOF who had nowhere near the success the Hip has had. I'm going to predict they are nominated at some point but don't get in....probably a few years down the line still. A start would be to have one of Gord's stage outfits on display there (many artist who are not in are included still...with a piece of memorabilia on display)...

[rocketsan22]

Never gonna happen...in a country of 300 million, how many have actually heard of the and you can't count ex pats...

[potsie]

Never gonna happen...in a country of 300 million, how many have actually heard of the and you can't count ex pats...

Yeah, it's a real long shot. I think there are probably several paths into the hall - influence, innovation, greatness and, to a lesser extent, popularity, which likely helped a band like Kiss get in. When it comes to the US, the Hip have none of these. To my knowledge they've never been cited by a major US rock band as a strong influence, they typically aren't viewed as innovative, and their greatness goes unrecognized due to being largely ignored by mainstream US rock media. The only way to push them into a nomination might be a grassroots campaign by fans and, as rocketsan22 has pointed out, there simply isn't enough of those in the US. In addition, the Hall has tended to ignore signed petitions (although I do think they succumbed to fan pressure when it came to inducting the mighty Rush). Personally I would love to see them in there because, despite all the Hall's flaws, it would be cool for kids 50 years from now to read something about the Hip on a plaque and maybe decide to check them out.

[patiodweller]

How is it possible that the HIP would be inducted into the Hall of fame not having made any top 40 hits in the USA? Are there examples of non-American acts that have no top 40 hits that have made the HOF? An honest question, I don't know. I don't think the HIP need to make the USA HOF. But if they do, I'm all for it. And I certainly agree that Downie's lyrics ARE in the same league as the greatest writers living AND dead in the English language including, yes, Shakespeare. I'm an English teacher and have used 'NOIS', 'Music At Work', 'Poets', 'The Look Ahead' and 'Locked' in the classroom, and just the other day, another English teacher and I co-taught a lesson on 'Nautical'. There's also 'Old Note', 'Christmas Day', and 'Chancellor' from 'Coke Machine Glow' that are brilliant. And my all-time fav to use, 'Grace, Too'.

[Tthip]

I'm an English teacher and have used....in the classroom...my all-time fav to use, 'Grace, Too'.

Can you expand on this for me? Pretend I am one of your students.

[JensKalebMiller]

Besides, why not dream bigger? Nobel Prize in Literature!! If Bob Dylan can get it, why not!

Dylan's lyrics are genius. Don't think the Hip's are on the same level. haha

Absolutely no disrespect to Bob, because I love him. But I would argue strongly that Downie's lyrics are just as genius as anything Dylan has ever written. Yea that's right, I said it.

I think the same thing it is two different country's and time period. Though I have seen both artists and the Hip is a band and that's the difference. Dylan is or could be said just a poet the Hip band is rock and roll. So If we are adding artists like RUNDMC or NWA what should be there. I think Eddy Vedder would the one to talk to as he has been one to talk for an other Canadian . Would be just in time for our 150th

[JensKalebMiller]

Besides, why not dream bigger? Nobel Prize in Literature!! If Bob Dylan can get it, why not!

Dylan's lyrics are genius. Don't think the Hip's are on the same level. haha

But its the whole package the Band is The Tragically Hip. Yes single performers get in like Dylan. For those its not a collection of work done by all members . Think how could Elton John get in without Bernie Taupin.