[NegPhil]

Why the personal attack?

I started this post in regards to this subject. You came in and attacked me not vice versa. I simple mentioned the conversations about movies I did not complained about them.

Although you have confirmed my suspicions that you are an ASSHOLE!!!

[VioletlightHeron]

I agree that propaganda has always been used to sell war to the people. However it is illegal for the United States government to propagandize it's own citizens. Foreigners are O.K. but not here in the good old U.S. of A..


In this case it has been proven that the Bush administration had drawn up the invasion plans before they even entered the White House. They used their control of the media to place highly ranked military officials on T.V to spread lies. They then used corrupt journalists to place fabricated intelligence in the public record and then sighted the reports as facts. They went before the U.N. and presented the same false information as a cause for war. Bush pulled the weapons inspectors and disregarded the conclusion that no WMD existed. They then launched a series of false terror threats against the public in order to scare the population and keep them operating from a place of perpetual fear. The acts of Treason and violations of international law have now been confirmed by the the very White House press Secretary who helped spread the propaganda. That's big news. I'm sorry about the angry tone of my first response.

First off, where the bleep did you learn your history, Phil? The U.S. used propaganda (posters, movies and so on) to convince the American public to support joining the Allies in WW I by demonizing the Germans as bloodthirsty Huns. I dont remember Woodrow Wilson getting arrested for that, do you? Second, there are such things as contingency plans that the Pentagon has stuck in a drawer somewhere which are dusted off, updated and implemented at the President's direction. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if there were contingency plans for the invasion of Canada. So stick that old canard that Bush and Co deviously planned to invade Iraq before entering office up your $#%@@ and smoke it!

[tommygunn]

your whining about what alot people here are talking about yet you still come here, thats the point....dont come here if you dont like whats being said its simple. Sorry if alot of us arent intellectually stimulating enough for you, maybe you should go somewhere where your interests would be more appreciated.

Isn't he a moderator though? :what

I've never been involved in a forum that disrespects its' moderators as much as this one does. I try not to follow all the arguing/belittling that goes on between everybody on here (unless it involves me ), but it's hard to avoid, and gets tiring after awhile.

What's the deal? Maybe Lance should choose his mods a little better.. ones that most of the posters respect? I dunno, but it does make one wonder.. *shrugs*

[NegPhil]

What? I do not attack people on the base. I am sad to learn that I am so disliked. I have tried to add positive contributions to the base and avoid arguing with others.

For the record...

1948 Smith-Mundt Act prohibits domestic dissemination of US propaganda.

[tommygunn]

What? I do not attack people on the base. I am sad to learn that I am so disliked. I have tried to add positive contributions to the base and avoid arguing with others.

I never said you did attack people.. although looking up at a couple posts above mine you said "Although you have confirmed my suspicions that you are an ASSHOLE!!!".

Like I said, I don't really keep up with all the arguing or who's right and who's wrong.. just that it's hard not to notice that a lot of it goes on... and it's surprising how much some of the mods on here are disrespected..

[NegPhil]

No worries, I quit.

[The Darkest Canuck]

Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects, it was you nigga, tell the truth nigga...BUSH KNOCKED THE TOWERS! IT WAS YOU NIGGA! BUSH KNOCKED DOWN THE TOWERS, TELL THE TRUTH NIGGA!

I pledge no allegiance, nigga fuck the president's speeches
I'm baptized by America and covered in leeches
The dirty water that bleaches your soul and your facial features
Drownin' you in propaganda that they spit through the speakers
And if you speak about the evil that the government does
The Patriot Act'll track you to the type of your blood
They try to frame you, and say you was tryna sell drugs
And throw a federal indictment on niggaz who show you love
This shit is run by fake Christians, fake politicians
Look at they mansions, then look at the conditions you live in
All they talk about is terrorism on television
They tell you to listen, but they don't really tell you they mission
They funded Al-Qaeda, and now they blame the Muslim religion
Even though Bin Laden, was a CIA tactician
They gave him billions of dollars, and they funded his purpose
Fahrenheit 9/11, that's just scratchin' the surface

Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects, it was you nigga, tell the truth nigga...BUSH KNOCKED THE TOWERS! IT WAS YOU NIGGA! BUSH KNOCKED DOWN THE TOWERS, TELL THE TRUTH NIGGA!

They say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam
But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong
Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight
It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights
I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream
I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem
I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south, my nigga
I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga
You ever clock someone who talk shit, or look at you wrong?
Imagine if they shot at you, and was rapin' your moms
And of course Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons
We sold him that shit, after Ronald Reagan's election
Mercenary contractors fightin' a new era
Corporate military bankin' off the war on terror
They controllin' the ghetto, with the failed attack
Tryna distract the fact that they engineerin' the crack
So I'm strapped like Lee Malvo holdin' a sniper rifle
These bullets'll touch your kids, and I don't mean like Michael
Your body be sent to the morgue, stripped down and recycled
I fire on house niggaz that support you and like you
Cuz innocent people get murdered in the struggle daily
And poor people never get shit and struggle daily
This ain't no alien conspiracy theory, this shit is real
Written on the dollar underneath the Masonic seal

I don't rap for dead presidents, I'd rather see the president dead
It's never been said, but I set precedents...

Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects, it was you nigga, tell the truth nigga...BUSH KNOCKED THE TOWERS! IT WAS YOU NIGGA! BUSH KNOCKED DOWN THE TOWERS, TELL THE TRUTH NIGGA!

[NegPhil]

I agree that propaganda has always been used to sell war to the people. However it is illegal for the United States government to propagandize it's own citizens. Foreigners are O.K. but not here in the good old U.S. of A..


In this case it has been proven that the Bush administration had drawn up the invasion plans before they even entered the White House. They used their control of the media to place highly ranked military officials on T.V to spread lies. They then used corrupt journalists to place fabricated intelligence in the public record and then sighted the reports as facts. They went before the U.N. and presented the same false information as a cause for war. Bush pulled the weapons inspectors and disregarded the conclusion that no WMD existed. They then launched a series of false terror threats against the public in order to scare the population and keep them operating from a place of perpetual fear. The acts of Treason and violations of international law have now been confirmed by the the very White House press Secretary who helped spread the propaganda. That's big news. I'm sorry about the angry tone of my first response.

First off, where the bleep did you learn your history, Phil? The U.S. used propaganda (posters, movies and so on) to convince the American public to support joining the Allies in WW I by demonizing the Germans as bloodthirsty Huns. I dont remember Woodrow Wilson getting arrested for that, do you? Second, there are such things as contingency plans that the Pentagon has stuck in a drawer somewhere which are dusted off, updated and implemented at the President's direction. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if there were contingency plans for the invasion of Canada. So stick that old canard that Bush and Co deviously planned to invade Iraq before entering office up your $#%@@ and smoke it!

Phew, I feel much better having resined my post. Too much pressure and not enough pay. I nominate LizardKid to replace me. Best of luck pal. :thumb:


As to you last comment.

BBC News
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/n ... 354269.stm</a><!-- m -->

The Bush administration made plans for war and for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attacks, sparking a policy battle between neo-cons and Big Oil, BBC's Newsnight has revealed.


You are correct about a plan for the US to invade Canada.

The United States government does have a plan to invade Canada. It's a 94-page document called "Joint Army and Navy Basic War Plan -- Red," with the word SECRET stamped on the cover. It's a bold plan, a bodacious plan, a step-by-step plan to invade, seize and annex our neighbor to the north. It goes like this:

Raiding the Icebox- The Washington Post
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01412.html</a><!-- m -->

[The Darkest Canuck]

"storming out of the Midwest to capture the strategic nickel mines of Ontario"

:thumb:

[VioletlightHeron]

"The planners did not specify exactly what would be done with those undesirables. But it would be kinda fun to see Celine Dion and Mike Myers wearing orange jumpsuits down in Guantanamo."

Celine and all the current detainees together? heh, I'm sure she could make them renounce jihad :thumb: :roll: :lol: :lol:

[grimes]

You are correct about a plan for the US to invade Canada.

The United States government does have a plan to invade Canada. It's a 94-page document called "Joint Army and Navy Basic War Plan -- Red," with the word SECRET stamped on the cover. It's a bold plan, a bodacious plan, a step-by-step plan to invade, seize and annex our neighbor to the north. It goes like this:

Raiding the Icebox- The Washington Post
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01412.html</a><!-- m -->

haha awesome, thanks for that link :thumb:

[The Horrible Esthete]

I agree that propaganda has always been used to sell war to the people. However it is illegal for the United States government to propagandize it's own citizens. Foreigners are O.K. but not here in the good old U.S. of A..


In this case it has been proven that the Bush administration had drawn up the invasion plans before they even entered the White House. They used their control of the media to place highly ranked military officials on T.V to spread lies. They then used corrupt journalists to place fabricated intelligence in the public record and then sighted the reports as facts. They went before the U.N. and presented the same false information as a cause for war. Bush pulled the weapons inspectors and disregarded the conclusion that no WMD existed. They then launched a series of false terror threats against the public in order to scare the population and keep them operating from a place of perpetual fear. The acts of Treason and violations of international law have now been confirmed by the the very White House press Secretary who helped spread the propaganda. That's big news. I'm sorry about the angry tone of my first response.

First off, where the bleep did you learn your history, Phil? The U.S. used propaganda (posters, movies and so on) to convince the American public to support joining the Allies in WW I by demonizing the Germans as bloodthirsty Huns. I dont remember Woodrow Wilson getting arrested for that, do you? Second, there are such things as contingency plans that the Pentagon has stuck in a drawer somewhere which are dusted off, updated and implemented at the President's direction. Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if there were contingency plans for the invasion of Canada. So stick that old canard that Bush and Co deviously planned to invade Iraq before entering office up your $#%@@ and smoke it!

And don't forget Vietnam.

The propaganda used to sway public opinion towards getting involved there was very similar to the attempts to 'justify' the Iraq invasion. Before JFK escalated the U.S. committment, there certainly wasn't a concensus amongst the American public that stepping up involvement was the right thing to do. Kennedy made a hard sell to sway public opinion with that whole concept of "helping to shape unstable, developing countries" and the piecemeal approach to defeating communism, insisting that success would be surely be realized with a "domino effect".

[NegPhil]

The similarity's between Vietnam and Iraq are true. However, I believe you are confusing rhetoric with propaganda.

"President Kennedy believed that the instability of developing countries demanded new approaches. Kennedy was especially taken by the analysis of MIT economist Walt W. Rostow, who believed that all nations followed the same general path of economic and social development. He argued that nations became unstable as the reached the phase he called "modernization."

The Kennedy administration was guided in part by this modernization model as it considered a way to protect South Vietnam while help it throughout the stages of economic growth."


The actually propaganda came in the form of "The Gulf of Tonkin Incident" in August of 1964 by the Johnson administration.
The “official” or commonly accepted version of how and why the U.S. was involved in Vietnam sort of goes along the following lines:

* Non-communist South Vietnam was invaded by communist North Vietnam
* The United States came to the aid of the regime in the South.
* The regime in the South was democratic

Yet, it turns out that this is untrue, and it required massive propaganda to create this standard and accepted image.

Gulf of Tonkin: McNamara admits "It didn't happen."

[youtube]pbJLwk-bJaA[/youtube]

[skippy the wonder dog]

The “official” or commonly accepted version of how and why the U.S. was involved in Vietnam sort of goes along the following lines....

I don't believe that's commonly accepted at all. On the contrary, it's commonly accepted that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a propaganda stunt of Johnson's administration. The commonly accepted view of the Vietnam War is now that the US should never have been there in the first place.

Just as it is now commonly accepted that the Bush administration made the decision to depose Saddam Hussein in 2001, baked the intelligence to create a phantom WMD threat, and misled the American public into war.

Nobody needs Scott McClellan's late-game confession, timed to ensure maximum sales at minimum personal cost, to tell him that.

[The Horrible Esthete]

Semantics.

The only real U.S. interest in Vietnam was thwarting the spread of communism; the invasion of non-communist nations by communist aggressors posed a global threat to democracy, the American way of life, etc, etc. THAT is all we cared about. But Americans weren't about to send their sons to die over a "threat" to democracy on the opposite side of the world. So the U.S. (Kennedy) had to spin the real objective into something all the 'doves' could buy into. Naturally, he invoked a more altruistic guise -- i.e., a "model" for "aiding" weak, unstable non-communist nations in their struggle to "modernize", and to curb the suffering of people amidst that transition.

Sound familiar?

Of the mish-mash of various loosely-linked "interests" which the US has in Iraq (i.e. oil, the threat of the growing terrorist network, the dictatorial oppression of the voice of a people and the slaughter of those who show any resistence, etc.) none were quite enough to stand alone in the justification of an invasion. Nor could they be linked together in a seamless thread so as to present an argument that would convince the "doves" and the "in betweens" that invasion was justified. Hence, the whole WMD fiasco.

Call it what you will, it's the same song and dance -- a nation masking its true interests with anything that the citizens might stomach to justify bloodshed. That's pretty much the definition of "propaganda".