[The Horrible Esthete]

Well....like I said...Hamilton completely floored me with his raw ability, and was devastated when they traded him, despite the apparent equity in that deal. I have some strong feelings about it all! :wink:

I would be thrilled to have a guy with Sizemore's ability in center, anchoring that whole outfield. I also expect him to be one of MLB's premier players over the next decade. While his raw power is a shade shy of Hamilton's, the guy has actually shown he can perform at the top level. I wouldn't be too concerned about his BA; I think he'll be a .900+ OPS guy going forward, and with his speed and defensive prowess, he'll be one of the elite.

Martinez also figures to be a standout. I really wonder if his lack of power this year is related to his subsequent DL stint, but he'll be a Hall of Famer if he can regain the powerstroke, continues to hit for average, and can stick around for another 10 years, imo.

[The Darkest Canuck]

fiurst Nady, and now Pudge Rodriguez to the Yankees. :thumb:

Add to that, Matsui's going to take a shot at getting back in the lineup, and suddenly we're looking pretty good. If only Jeter would get going with his bat, and into gear, we might be on to something.

[downie_24]

Rumors on TSN.ca that Griffey is heading to the White Sox. No word on who they'll be getting in return.

[VioletlightHeron]

fiurst Nady, and now Pudge Rodriguez to the Yankees. :thumb:

Add to that, Matsui's going to take a shot at getting back in the lineup, and suddenly we're looking pretty good. If only Jeter would get going with his bat, and into gear, we might be on to something.

I think the Yanks got taken to the showers on the Pudge deal, offensively speaking. But, they did need a veteran catcher and they didnt pay too high of a price in Farnsworth. The Nady/Marte deal was pure George :nooooo :nooooo

[The Horrible Esthete]

Rumors on TSN.ca that Griffey is heading to the White Sox. No word on who they'll be getting in return.

From the Reds perspective, it certainly wasn't about trying to improve the team in the short or long term (Cincy got a journeyman minol league 2B and a ho-hum P prospect), and it wasn't about dumping salary.

It was about ending a bad marriage, and giving Junior a shot at a ring.

One down (Griffey), one to [let] go (Dunn).

[The Horrible Esthete]

The Nady/Marte deal was pure George

F***ing Pirates. What a disgrace of an organization.

The Reds, as an organization, has been pretty pathetic too, but at least they don't serve as the Yankees / Red Sox joint AAAA farm club.

:censored

[tigerthelion]

I'm surprised not to see more reaction to Manny leaving Boston. If you ask me, I think any team would be foolish to trade Manny. The guy is a first ballot HOFer and one of the best hitters in the history of the sport. He more than makes up for his defensive liabilities with his bat. I can't for the life of me understand why there are Red Sox fans who are happy to see him go. I know if I was a GM and was given a choice to make--Manny Ramirez or Jason Bay to play RF for my team--I would choose Manny in a nanosecond.

[BuffaloHipFan]

Let's Go Mets!!

[VioletlightHeron]

I'm surprised not to see more reaction to Manny leaving Boston. If you ask me, I think any team would be foolish to trade Manny. The guy is a first ballot HOFer and one of the best hitters in the history of the sport. He more than makes up for his defensive liabilities with his bat. I can't for the life of me understand why there are Red Sox fans who are happy to see him go. I know if I was a GM and was given a choice to make--Manny Ramirez or Jason Bay to play RF for my team--I would choose Manny in a nanosecond.

I think the whole Manny being Manny (i.e. doing boorish things like shoving a team secretary to the ground because she couldn't get 20 game tickets for him on short notice, and taking at-bats off simply because he was in a snit) thing was poisoning the team and they needed to get rid of him fast. He's made Boston management more than aware of his unhappiness with playing for them; the dude is well paid and the team has put up with his shit for a very long time and yet he wants outta there? Fine, good riddance!

[tigerthelion]

I'm surprised not to see more reaction to Manny leaving Boston. If you ask me, I think any team would be foolish to trade Manny. The guy is a first ballot HOFer and one of the best hitters in the history of the sport. He more than makes up for his defensive liabilities with his bat. I can't for the life of me understand why there are Red Sox fans who are happy to see him go. I know if I was a GM and was given a choice to make--Manny Ramirez or Jason Bay to play RF for my team--I would choose Manny in a nanosecond.

I think the whole Manny being Manny (i.e. doing boorish things like shoving a team secretary to the ground because she couldn't get 20 game tickets for him on short notice, and taking at-bats off simply because he was in a snit) thing was poisoning the team and they needed to get rid of him fast. He's made Boston management more than aware of his unhappiness with playing for them; the dude is well paid and the team has put up with his shit for a very long time and yet he wants outta there? Fine, good riddance!

Yeah, Manny poisoned the team to the tune of two World Series victories. What a detriment. :? Every year at the trading deadline since acquiring him, there have been rumours about him being unhappy and every year until this one, the Sox have ended up keeping Manny and had a great deal of success with him. Without Manny, the Sox World Series drought would still be alive and well. :rambo:

[The Horrible Esthete]

But what Manny did for them in the past has nothing to do with this season's pennant race and the present team chemistry.

What are the Red Sox to do? They have to make a choice: either a) let Manny bully them around with demands for in-season contract negotiations (he wanted them to resign him to a 4-year 100 MILLION dollar contract) , or b) get rid of him. And It's not the same act he's pulled before -- he was SITTING OUT GAMES, dogging potential GIDPs down the first baseline, etc. The word "cancerous" is often overused when talking about certain mal-contents, but in this case, I think even many of his teammates were in agreement that Manny's stunts and tactics were a distraction and were jeopardizing the team's chances every bit as much as his permanent abscence could.

So, instead of placating Manny by awarding him an overpriced contract while they're trying to win a pennant THIS year they shipped him. They don't have the time or patience to be concerning themselves with his future there and the future alignment of their ballclub NOW, for god sakes....that crap is what they devote their time to AFTER the grind, not DURING it.

:nooooo

You're right in that Manny is one of the top RH sluggers in the game as of NOW...and that's why I applaud the Sox for showing the balls to stand up to his act.

And Jason Bay may turn out to be as valuable as Manny has been. He may not ever post power numbers like Manny has, but better speed, defense, and overall baseball accumen and less "maintenance" might very well bridge the gap. And besides -- Bay has posted some damn nice numbers in years where the Pirate lineup was absolutely woeful. I'm interested to see what numbers he can put up with guys like Pedroia, Ortiz, Lowell and Drew hitting around him.

Maybe he just might wind up matching Manny's production?

[tigerthelion]

But what Manny did for them in the past has nothing to do with this season's pennant race and the present team chemistry.

What are the Red Sox to do? They have to make a choice: either a) let Manny bully them around with demands for in-season contract negotiations (he wanted them to resign him to a 4-year 100 MILLION dollar contract) , or b) get rid of him. And It's not the same act he's pulled before -- he was SITTING OUT GAMES, dogging potential GIDPs down the first baseline, etc. The word "cancerous" is often overused when talking about certain mal-contents, but in this case, I think even many of his teammates were in agreement that Manny's stunts and tactics were a distraction and were jeopardizing the team's chances every bit as much as his permanent abscence could.

So, instead of placating Manny by awarding him an overpriced contract while they're trying to win a pennant THIS year they shipped him. They don't have the time or patience to be concerning themselves with his future there and the future alignment of their ballclub NOW, for god sakes....that crap is what they devote their time to AFTER the grind, not DURING it.

:nooooo

You're right in that Manny is one of the top RH sluggers in the game as of NOW...and that's why I applaud the Sox for showing the balls to stand up to his act.

And Jason Bay may turn out to be as valuable as Manny has been. He may not ever post power numbers like Manny has, but better speed, defense, and overall baseball accumen and less "maintenance" might very well bridge the gap. And besides -- Bay has posted some damn nice numbers in years where the Pirate lineup was absolutely woeful. I'm interested to see what numbers he can put up with guys like Pedroia, Ortiz, Lowell and Drew hitting around him.

Maybe he just might wind up matching Manny's production?

Aren't you the same guy who has defended Chad Johnson? :nooooo Yeah, there's a real positive clubhouse presence. :?

Manny was supposed to be bad for chemistry last season, and they ended up keeping him and winning a championship. Manny was supposed to be bad for chemistry in 2004 and look who ended up winning.


Jason Bay will NEVER be as good as Manny, EVER. The gap will never be bridged. It's like, in hockey, Gretzky could score like no other, but plenty of guys could check, had more speed than Gretzky, could play better d than Gretzky. Could they bridge the gap? No, just like Bay will never bridge the gap with Manny. Speed? Oh yeah, Bay and his 7 stolen bases really shows great speed. :nooooo Baseball acumen? Oh dear heavens. :lol: :lol: I find it funny that Manny has less errors than Bay this season and more assists. :rambo:

Manny's hitting isn't that much better than Bay's this season. I'll grant you that. Still, the guy you want up there to get that tying or winning RBI is Manny and not Bay, IMO.

[laliber]

It's like, in hockey, Gretzky could score like no other, but plenty of guys could check, had more speed than Gretzky, could play better d than Gretzky. Could they bridge the gap? No,

Did you just toss some kudos at Gretz? cratch:

[The Horrible Esthete]

Aren't you the same guy who has defended Chad Johnson? :nooooo Yeah, there's a real positive clubhouse presence. :?

I defended Chad when the issues were "clowning" with the media, posting checklists in his locker of DBs who "couldn't cover him", guaranteeing wins, and sending DBs Pepto Bismol. I never defended any on-field spats with Carson, his tantrums about not getting the ball enough, or his trade demand$. I don't defend whiners and money-grubbing bitches.

So now that we've gotten that straight:

Manny was supposed to be bad for chemistry last season, and they ended up keeping him and winning a championship. Manny was supposed to be bad for chemistry in 2004 and look who ended up winning.

Right. So this was the "Third Annual Manny Bitch Fest" -- and his antics became more divisive and more petulant each time. Apparently, Epstein didn't want to wind up paying $25 million to a 40-year old, and both he and Francona were sick enough of playing day-care provider to let Manny and his Big Bat go. They must think that the team may not be able to rise above his ego this time.

So I guess I trust that the Red Sox know what's best for themselves over what you think is best for them.

Jason Bay will NEVER be as good as Manny, EVER. The gap will never be bridged. It's like, in hockey, Gretzky could score like no other, but plenty of guys could check, had more speed than Gretzky, could play better d than Gretzky. Could they bridge the gap? No, just like Bay will never bridge the gap with Manny. Speed? Oh yeah, Bay and his 7 stolen bases really shows great speed. :nooooo Baseball acumen? Oh dear heavens. :lol: :lol: I find it funny that Manny has less errors than Bay this season and more assists. :rambo:

Maybe he won't bridge the gap. It sure is a "safe bet" for you to say that he won't; Bay hasn't yet achieved the elite level of slugger that Manny has to this point. But he hasn't had anywhere NEAR the protection in the lineup that Manny has enjoyed for the last 8 years.

And nice job using the errors, assists, and steals from the current partial season to make your argument. That's not ...like...selective or anything.....

Bay has a better career fielding percentage than Manny. Bay has more career steals than Manny does in 1300 fewer games played. Bay would smoke Manny in a footrace -- he has played center field for gosh sakes. Can you imagine Man-Ram in center? :lol:

Of the two, Manny is clearly the superior slugger. And that, in and of itself, may be more valuable to the Sox lineup than having a more complete player (which Bay is). But again, the Sox seem to feel that when you factor in Manny's character issues and penchant for being a hothead and a whiny baby, Bay is better for them right now.

I'm inclined to think they know what they're doing.

[The Darkest Canuck]

I think Bay is a much more dangerous hitter in Boston now, and a better fit for them, strengthening you defense always helps, and it's not like he's a slouch at the plate either...

Give me Bay over Manny on almost any team, regardless of Manny's accomplishments...

Bay is a complete player, with a good attitude, and a hunger to win that others on the team might not share to the same extent given the team's two world series titles in the past 4 years.

It's easy to speculate on wether or not the curse would still be alive and well if it weren't for Manny, but you can say the same thing for others as well...Ortiz, Damon, Schilling, Martinez, Varitek...you win as a team, and you lose as a team, it takes 100% effort from everybody in an organization to win it all, from the coaching staff, right down to the bench players, and the call-ups. Manny hadn't seemed willing to give them his best effort as of late, so they traded him for somebody who they believe will. I must admit, i'm a little bit jealous that they landed Bay, and we got Nady, but Nady's having a good year so I won't complain...at least not until we see how it all unfolds.

That being said, the BoSox better not fucking win again this year, and my Yankees better smarten up and start playing at the level they're fully capable of, and expected to be at...OR ELSE!