[cferneyh]

This year, however, Daniel Alfredsson is making $4.76 million.

Correct. However, that isn't the issue that we are debating. You suggested that he took less to stay in Ottawa. I pointed out that the contract he signed (which, when averaged out, equaled $6.5 million per season) was the going rate for what he had done to that point in his career. In fact, he acknowledged it when he himself said that had he known he'd be putting up the numbers he is now, he likely wouldn't have signed a 5 year deal.

Not really. You mentioned the man himself, and while he did wonderful things for this team, it is no secret that Jacques Martin played a more defensively sound game. You eluded to that yourself. And while Heatley's numbers have improved, and Spezza came to be a predominant forward in the leauge, you just argued that Alfredsson's success was based on the talent that surrounded him in Havlat, and Hossa. I'm not sure how you can argue both sides.

Arguing both sides? Hardly. Spezza and Heatley are better than Hossa and Havlat, but all four are great players. And Iginla, nor Sundin, have had anyone like those four as linemates (or even teammates). Particularly at the point of their respective careers that they were all at. I suppose you could suggest that Mogilny was just as talented, but he was largely injured during his time in Toronto (with the exception of 02/03) and by that point of his career he was 34. That's a tad different from having a 25 year old Marian Hossa.

And while you can argue that Alfie didn't have those guys on his lines in regular shifts, the fact of the matter is that having that kind of depth means that other teams can't focus their defensive specialists or their best d-men on one line (like they can - and have always done - with Sundin, and Iginla).

Is it beyond comprehension that an NHL player would take a financially sound contract (5-8 years at that. How many players did the same that year, or have done so since?)

Brad Richards
Martin St. Louis
Chris Pronger
Scott Niedermayer
Joe Thornton
Martin Brodeur

And that's just off the top of my head, and doesn't count the long term deals that guys like Gomez, Drury, and Briere signed this year. Each one of the players I listed above - perhaps with the exception of Brodeur who always seems to sign below market rates - signed deals that were long term and were the going rate at that time, and would in all likelihood would be making more if they signed shorter deals and jumped at UFA status as quickly as they could. I remember scoffing when Niedermayer signed out of the lockout for $6.75 million per. I thought that was way too much. But look at the list of guys making more than him now (if he was playing) - Bryan Frickin McCabe, Kimmo Timonen, Ed Jovanovski, Zdeno Chara. Doesn't that drive home the concept of going market rate for you?!? And, to reiterate the point, Alfie has himself admitted that based on today's market rates, he is underpaid, and he shouldn't have signed that deal, but he did and he'll live by it.

His salary aside, I was, in jest, suggesting that Alfredsson was a better captain than Sundin. If you don't agree, that's completely fine.

Well, of course I don't agree, but that's largely a subjective measure and I'm not going to debate that with you, because it is completely fruitless. What I took issue with was your assertion that he signed for less than the going rate because he wanted to stay in Ottawa. I feel that I've aptly demonstrated that he did not, and I think that you agree when your best comeback to that point is what his salary is this season (which, of course, doesn't factor in the signing bonus, nor the 24% rollback, so it makes the 07/08 number look a lot better than the averaged amout of $6.5 million).

Also, I think it is kind of funny that you think Alfie's deal was all about doing what he could to stay when he structured his deal to get a $7.5 million signing bonus, mere months before the lockout. Seems to me that someone (or someone's agent) was expecting salaries to drop, or plateau, with the new CBA and as such made sure he got as much up front as he could. Funny that.

Coles notes for tth_fan:

das_hips: me think Alfie took less than he could of.
cferneyh: me no agree