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For the more novice guitar players
#1

I play and I am not very good (I know some chords and that is about it)
I always find it better being a beginner that it helps to actually see something rather than just trying to read some tabs.

I just ran across this on YouTube and thought it was prett cool.
It is not the lead guitar, but it is what Downie plays live in concert.


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"We're forced to bed, but we're free to dream"
Dana
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#2

Great find, and thanks for posting. I'm probably in the same category of skill as you, and this will be a great help in learning this track. During the live show I laugh every time that Gord calls out the chords he's playing, but I bet it makes learning much easier!
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#3

Fiddlers Green:


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"We're forced to bed, but we're free to dream"
Dana
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#4

The problem with using videos (especially from YouTube) as a visual guide is that there is no guarantee that the amateur subject has any idea what the hell he's doing.

For instance, that Fiddlers Green posted above is waaaay off. That song is played in an open tuning, and that guy is in a standard tuning using a capo.

To me, the only thing worse than not being able to figure out how to play a song is to learn to play it wrong.
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#5

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:To me, the only thing worse than not being able to figure out how to play a song is to learn to play it wrong.

Well, define "wrong."

The classical music mentality says you have to play the correct notes, precisely as notated, or you aren't playing it "right."

The rock guitar mentality says you have to play the same notes in the same position on the neck, using the same tuning as on the original recording, or you aren't doing it the "right" way.

I'd say you're playing it right if it sounds right, even if you're playing it in a different key and altering the melody. Which is the attitude that applies in jazz, folk, bluegrass, jam bands, etc.

The chords are right. The fills sound right. Given that I hate alternate tunings, I'd be inclined to play it this way.

Now, the guy in the first video seems to be naming the chords wrong....
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#6

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:To me, the only thing worse than not being able to figure out how to play a song is to learn to play it wrong.

Well, define "wrong."

The classical music mentality says you have to play the correct notes, precisely as notated, or you aren't playing it "right."

The rock guitar mentality says you have to play the same notes in the same position on the neck, using the same tuning as on the original recording, or you aren't doing it the "right" way.

I'd say you're playing it right if it sounds right, even if you're playing it in a different key and altering the melody. Which is the attitude that applies in jazz, folk, bluegrass, jam bands, etc.

The chords are right. The fills sound right. Given that I hate alternate tunings, I'd be inclined to play it this way.

Now, the guy in the first video seems to be naming the chords wrong....

Fair enough. If want to sit around and play this song for yourself, and don't want to tune to an Open E to play it properly, that's your prerogative. But just because it sounds "right" to you doesn't mean it is.

Guitarists use alternate tunings for a reason. When a song is played in an open tuning, it's almost always because certain notes are specifically desired for the chord composition that aren't available in the standard tuning. And that applies in this case as well. There are notes in the chords he's playing in the video that vary from the notes in the original composition.
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#7

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:Fair enough. If want to sit around and play this song for yourself, and don't want to tune to an Open E to play it properly, that's your prerogative. But just because it sounds "right" to you doesn't mean it is.

Even if you want to perform the song in public, why not do it the way you want to?

The Del McCoury Band plays Tom Petty's "Love is a Long Road" the wrong way -- they omit a passing chord in the verse lines. John Coltrane certainly played Rogers & Hammerstein's " My Favourite Things" the wrong way. Bob Dylan performs his own songs the wrong way -- every last one of them. I could go on and on. In fact, the Hip do a few of their songs the wrong way, too....

It's right if it sounds right, unless you're looking at it from a pedagogical angle, which is the disease of the classical music world. Then it isn't right unless it's played to some kind of standard, because a piece of music represents as much a proof of skill as it does a work of art. The rock world is the only other place where this mentality holds sway, presumably because of the way we put stars on pedestals, and of the competitive attitudes of teenaged guitar players -- the aim becomes not just to play the song, but to play Yngwie's solo note for masturbatory note, for example.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:Guitarists use alternate tunings for a reason. When a song is played in an open tuning, it's almost always because certain notes are specifically desired for the chord composition that aren't available in the standard tuning. And that applies in this case as well. There are notes in the chords he's playing in the video that vary from the notes in the original composition.

Well, the chords are the same and the notes in the chords are the same -- else you'd be playing different chords. An E major triad is always the same thing. You're talking about chord voicings, and again, except from a pedagogical standpoint, I don't think anyone would complain that someone is playing the wrong chord voicings. Alternative arrangements are always possible.

You'd only complain if the voicings didn't work, i.e. if the song lost something tangible that wasn't compensated for elsewhere. And I'm talking about something tangible.

For example, Blowin' in the Wind -- because it's one of the most-recorded songs going. Dylan originally played Blowin' in the Wind out of G position with a capo on the 7th fret so he could exploit the descending bass line from the C, playing Carter-style. If you just strummed the chords in D, you'd lose that bass line, and someone might well feel that the result wasn't satisfactory.

But you'd still be playing the same song, and you'd be playing it "right" -- esp. given that the Bobster himself now plays it in C, has ditched the Carter-style playing, and embellishes throughout with sus chords. Is his new way somehow "wrong?"

And really, when you get down to it, you don't even have to play the "right" chords, as long as you know why. Peter, Paul and Mary recorded that same song with a minor chord -- the vi, I don't know what key they did it in. There's no minor chord in the Freewheelin' version. Were they "wrong?" I don't think so -- a lot of people treat that as the canonical arrangement, because they sold more records than Bob did.

If you want to pick through all the different recordings of this song, you'll find many different arrangements. Some work, some don't -- but that's largely a matter of taste. It's hard to say any of them are "wrong."

Unless you're looking at it from a teacher's point of view, and you want students to play it a certain way for a specific reason -- because, presumably, they're going to learn from the experience -- it's pretty much irrelevant.

And on a parenthetical note, let me add that I find it strange that so many rock guitarists sneer at the use of the capo as "cheating" (no, I'm not pointing at you), while at the same time embracing alternate tunings. Who's cheating now?
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#8

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:It's right if it sounds right, unless you're looking at it from a pedagogical angle, which is the disease of the classical music world.

The simple fact is this: when Fiddler's Green is played in the standard tuning and capoed up a fret, it doesn't sound right to me (and anyone else with a trained ear). The reason for that is because on Road Apples, it's played in an open E, not in a standard tuning. I can hear the different chord "voicings", and I can hear the difference in the resonation of open strings versus fretted strings. Plain and simple.

Now, you and I could go back and forth all day long about whether playing Fiddler's Green "correctly" necessitates playing it in an open E. My stance on the matter is as follows, and you nor anyone else will change my perspective:

The "right" way to play a song is to a) play it identical to how it's played on the original record released to the public, or b) play it identical to how the author commonly performs it.

Period.

And if a & b (above) differ, then either can be "correct"

I'll bet you everything I own that if you're lucky enough to see The Hip perform Fiddler's Green in concert, you'll see it played in an open tuning.
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#9

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:The simple fact is this: when Fiddler's Green is played in the standard tuning and capoed up a fret, it doesn't sound right to me (and anyone else with a trained ear).

Well, that's only because of your definition of "right." I call bullshit on your parenthetical comment. Everyone with a trained ear does not necessarily share your definition of "right," i.e. they do not hold that "different" is "wrong."

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:The "right" way to play a song is to a) play it identical to how it's played on the original record released to the public, or b) play it identical to how the author commonly performs it.

My point exactly: this is only your point of view.

Outside the mainstream -- in, for example, bluegrass, jazz, folk, western swing, you name it -- that point of view isn't even on the radar. And even in mainstream music, I'd venture that it is held almost exclusively by amateurs. How many recorded covers are faithful to the original, rather than reinterpreted?

We're not going to agree on this, obviously. But given that we're talking about your point of view, rather than some universal truth, is it really legitimate for you to dogmatically assert that the video is "wrong?"

If people want to play it this way, they should play it this way.
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#10

Skippy, you're completely missing it.

We're not talking about different arrangements here. A different arrangement of the same song or and adaptation of style is a whole different ballgame -- it's an artistic statment in itself. Jimmy Page didn't do Joan Baez' "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You "wrong", he did it in a completely different arrangement because he thought it was a neat adaptation with that spanish-style guitar (and he was right -- it's way way cooler than Baez version).

This dude in the video isn't playing an "adaptation" of the Hip song to a different style; he's not trying to "improvise" and add his own unique touch; he's not presenting his own fresh arrangement to an old classic. He's not altering the key to accomodate his singing voice.

He's trying to play Fiddler's Green just as it's presented on Road Apples, but presumably, his ear isn't fine enough to tell that it's played in open E.
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#11

But he doesn't say that. That's your assumption.

Besides, whether he can tell the difference or not has nothing to do with whether it's legitimate for someone else to pick this up and play it that way. If I was to play this, I'd play it in standard, too.

If I was to pick on something here, it's that he plays that melody line the same way every time, which is monotonous and doesn't actually reflect the melody. He plays the third line the same as the first.
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#12

Again, for the more novice guitar players.
This young mans interpretation of Downie's part from Bobcaygeon:

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"We're forced to bed, but we're free to dream"
Dana
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#13

38 Years Old

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"We're forced to bed, but we're free to dream"
Dana
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#14

Thanks. This is really useful, appreciate it.
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