[Shazbot]

The Hip have become yet another sad victim of "The Loudness War". See this Wikipedia article and watch this YouTube video - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ</a><!-- m -->

Musically speaking, I LOVE World Container... it's probably my favorite Hip album in a long time, in terms of the songs. There are many memorable, edgy and creative songs, and Gord's vocals sound terrific, especially compared to IBE. But it's really hard to listen to because of the absolutely over-the-top compression and limiting. It's headache-inducing and there is no real dynamic range at all, which gets very tedious to listen to after a short time. IT HAS THE EFFECT OF SOMEONE TYPING IN CAPS ALL THE TIME, FOR THE WHOLE LENGTH OF A VERY LONG MESSAGE. I mean, gosh, even "Pretend" is all pushed to the limit. It's terrible, sonically speaking.

The bottom line is... you can make an album nice and loud and punchy without destroying all of its dynamics. I seriously hope the band and/or their label will consider remastering this disc. Think of any analogy you like for taking something vibrant and colorful and squashing all the life out of it... that's what happened here. They spent months creating a terrific sonic landscape, and then probably weeks to make what was likely a great final mix, and then the final mastering just washed it all out into mush. I wish I could get my hands on the final mix of this album, before it was mastered. That would be the version of this album I would want to hear again and again. As it is now, it is tiresome to hear all the way through even once.

Maybe not many will actually complain about this (here's someone else who does), but everybody listening suffers from it, subconsciously at least, and so does the music, ultimately. The same thing happened to Rush's Vapor Trails album, which became infamous for its destroyed dynamics and distortion. Apparently, a remastered version of Vapor Trails is actually being released because of so many complaints, so hopefully The Hip will do the same.

Thanks for the great tunes, though.
Shaz

[lampshade29]

Pretty interesting video.
As an audio engineer I understand all of this stuff and it makes me pretty sad. I hate sacrificing sound quality for volume. It doesn't make a lot of sense. But, I guess you want your music to be heard...
It's sad that this is the way things are done now and kids growing up starting to listen to music now will never know how good music can really sound.

[direwolf74]

This has been going on for a while, and I totally agree with you. I remember reading an interesting article about this very topic about 4 years ago. To be honest though, I don't really notice it that much. Probably due to the fact that I played in bands for 8 years when I was younger and I've been to hundreds of concerts without the use of ear protection, so my hearing is pretty much f**ked anyways.

As for World Container, I can definitely hear what you're talking about on "Pretend". The levels are obviously set really high on that song, especially the vocals.

[skippy the wonder dog]

This is one of the reasons I'm not really listening to the new album.

Part of the reasoning behind this may be that we listen to music on headphones now, with traffic noise etc. in the background. Try taking an album that's decidedly not compressed -- say "Amused to Death" by Roger Waters -- and listening to that on your morning subway ride, or your next flight, or whatever. You'll see why cranking everything up is popular in the recording biz these days.

[The Horrible Esthete]

Hmmm. While the "loudness war" is real, I perceive a distinct improvement in World Container compared to the last several albums, especially in terms of dynamics.

I listened through the CD twice today. Well, that’s a lie, I never made it through the second time. It’s tiring. The bass and treble are all mashed together into a sonic wall of muddied midrange that drowns out the vocals and exhausts the ear.

He's certainly entitled to his opinion, but I completely disagree. I think the bass guitar, kick drum, & toms all sound further "beneath" the vocals and guitars on this CD than any I've heard in a long, long time.

Using "Last Night I Dreamed...." as an example, I have never heard the "dynamic range" of Fay's drums captured on a recording this well.

Pay close attention to the percussion in that song, and then name another TTH song that captures the real-life sound of the percussion any better.

[IMissMyLungBob]

You learn something new everyday and boy was todays learning experience worth while. I had no idea this was going on. thanks for posting this.

[Daryl24]

You learn something new everyday and boy was todays learning experience worth while. I had no idea this was going on. thanks for posting this.

me2 i know nothing about the physical technicals about sound

[tigerthelion]

Oh well. I like listening to most of the songs on "World Container." This doesn't bother me on bit.

[direwolf74]

Using "Last Night I Dreamed...." as an example, I have never heard the "dynamic range" of Fay's drums captured on a recording this well.

Pay close attention to the percussion in that song, and then name another TTH song that captures the real-life sound of the percussion any better.

I agree. Johnny's drums sound amazing on that song.

[mcwslc]

Interesting indeed, especially for someone like me who is clueless when it comes to reading/writing/playing/recording music.

Despite being born without the creative musical gene I’m certainly aware that not all CD’s are created equal. Since I spend a lot of time in my car driving to and from work my car stereo is probably where I listen to music the most. Since it’s a controlled environment that never changes (except for the windows being open or closed) I’m well aware of how some CD’s hit that “sweet spot” w/o touching the Bass/Treble/Fader or Volume knobs, then others sound like crap no matter how much adjusting I do. Since it happens on CD’s from the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s I’m not sure if it’s a result of the “Loudness War” or not, but sometimes I find myself listening to a quality sounding CD even if I’m not jonzing to hear that particular band at the moment.

On a side note, it’s interesting to read the Vapor Trails CD from Rush suffers from this as well. Maybe they should reassess their entire “behind the scenes” operation because they also made their Live in Rio CD unlistenable. I’ve never heard a professionally recorded live CD where the cheering crowd is mixed louder than the band in every song!

[Treakin]

Though it doesn't go as far as giving me a headache I do notice this on the WC.

I think that's part of the reason why Day for Night is such a masterpiece, the sound is crisp and clear but at the same time sounds live off the floor. For example, the guitar interplay at the beginning of Thugs, you can hear both of em at equal volume and it just shakes you. I have yet to hear guitar sound so good on any of their (or anyones) albums since. They seem to drown out Paul's guitar on a lot of tunes. Theres' nothing like the sound of a distorted Les Paul cranked and I miss that lately.

That's part of the reason they kick ass live, not many bands sound better live than in studio.

I'd love for them to bring the sound of Day for Night back, although I know they enjoy change, and experimenting with every new release.

[greenscor]

I agree with mcwslc that Vapor trails was horrible recording. It made me as a rush fan disappointed, however I think the Live in Rio suffered due to the fact that they had a huge storm that night, and some of the audio tracks were missing, however the crowd, I think it worked well especailly with YYZ.

I will have to listen to World Container to see how it compares to Vapor trails CD. Thank you for this post.

[inaworldcontainer]

W.C. , sounds just fine to me. It doesn't even come close to Vapor Trails , by RUSH. If a CD is too loud , then I just turn it down.


I just think that W.C. , is just a case of great song writing.

I think that the mastering of W.C. was excellent.

Listen to the end and parts of the Drop-Off. You can clearly hear every instrument all in perfect balance.

[handles]

"it's got a great a beat and you can dance to it...I'll give it a 94 outta 100, Dick"

[longpond69]

Without getting into a pissing contest or stepping on the audiophiles' toes, I agree that this album sounds really good, especially at high volume. I have a decent after-market CD deck in my car, running through factory VW speakers, and there is little I enjoy more than "The Drop-Off" at a level that turns heads at red lights. If there's something technically flawed about the mixing of the album, I don't notice it and I don't really want to. I had, however, noticed that the remixed versions of all my ABBA albums sounded really, really bad.