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[quote="CanuckCourage
Because some people can get violent, the message loses credibility ? Or all the people lose credibility ? Then surely the police have no credibility , nor does Bush, or are their exercises of violence justified, even without provocation? Police are known to incite violence at protests, it's a means of dispersing the crowd and giving a bad name to anyone who speaks out. [/quote]
Exactly, at WTO it was a small group that started the violence and it was the larger group that had planned to peacefully demonstrate to provoke police.. the police reacted against the peaceful protesters first (big suprise... can't go against big business)
It can be argued that one of the only reasons this protest made the news was because it was so sensationalised.
Welcome to the public screen... images getting the messages across
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For me it's all the context... the APEC incident you speak of, I agree the police were in the wrong because the protest was peaceful (and I also agree that Chretien should f#$% himself... but anyway...).
But as for other incidents, can I say for sure what happened? No, because I wasn't there, so I have to go by what I see in the media. And from what I saw, it appears to me that people passing themselves off as protestors but are really there to stir up shit are to blame. I'm sure that it's probably a minority of the people who perpetrate these acts, but all they do is tar all the protestors with the same brush. Plus, either none of the other protestors, or very few of them, openly condemn the violent ones, and as a result many people think their cause or stance loses credibility. Whether it's right or wrong, I certainly understand that position, because no matter how noble a cause is, it never justifies mindless violence.
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listen i dont like bush or his policies but im not going to be naieve in thinking that a protest outside of a speech is goin to accomplish anything.
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That almost sounds like people who say "im not going to vote, whats the point? they are all corrupt no matter who i choose"
Protesters accomplish a lot.. even if it may seem small and inconsequential to many
But... no one is expecting Bush to see the protests and say, "Oh wow... i am so disliked, I am so wrong... I need to resign!!" They are instead, a public demonstration of community illustrating that governments are held accountable by the people. Otherwise, people are sitting at home on their asses ....
:thumb: Yay Protesters!!
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fair enough....to each his own i guess.
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I had a really busy morning. My phone was ringing at 8am. It was the RCMP and Halifax Police. They needed a detailed maps and airphotos done of the Halifax region (I'm a cartographer for the Municipal Gov't) for security layouts and planning. Of course they needed the maps done pronto. I didn't stop till 2pm. Whew.
While I don't like GW I do appreciate him coming to our city first and saying "Thank you" to us for our help in the war on terrorism in Afghanistan and our help during the 9-11 attacks in hosting families in our homes from over 44 planes that were diverted to our airport.
I think our Premiere said it best when he mentioned protestors. To do it the Nova Scotian way. To make our point and be polite about it.
This is great exposure for our province and country.
High
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Do you honestly think the *majority* of the protestors come out with the premise of inciting violence or is it merely a few dissidents (anarchists, in the WTO Seattle)?
And, what about the police? They have been known to act upon instigation to being the violence themselves! it comes to a point where there are a bunch of protesters with a sign and police in riot gear... what kind of message does that promote???
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I don't think the police do accept responsibility for overreacting at all. That infamous CBC footage of the police pepper-spraying protestors at the APEC summit in Vancouver who were literally sitting on a sidewalk less than 10 seconds after telling people to move showed the country the kind of power trips these people get themselves on, and the police officers responsible for that incident denied any wrongdoing. And last year here in Halifax there was a protest about something near the World Trade Convention Centre downtown, and police jumped their own barricades to assault protestors. I think they take it too far and, although there are certainly cases where protestors have gotten carried away and sullied their cause, I think the actions of the police during mostly peaceful protests makes everybody less likely to respect the authority and more likely to fight back.
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The more you barricade people away and shut them out and try to hinder public forms of discussion the less democratic things are and the more angry people get.
It becomes a question of who the police are protecting more and what rights are being lost in this process.
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OK... I think we have our classic "chicken or egg" type of conundrum... are protestors angry and violent because police are barricading them and shutting them out, or are police barricading and shutting out protestors because the protestors are angry and violent? Obviously in recent times we've seen examples of both... police at fault (APEC summit in Vancouver) and protestors at fault (WTO summits in Seattle and Quebec). Where we get in trouble is in automatically assuming one side is "evil", or one side is always wrong. I tend to believe that on both sides, the intentions are always good... the police as a whole genuinely want to protect everyone from harm, and protestors as a whole want to loudly, yet peacefully, make their voices heard. Unfortunately, human nature being such as it is, people's good intentions lead them to bad decisions, or even worse some people within the group, unbeknownst to the rest, have bad intentions and hide them until it is time to act. And this is true whether people are holding a protest sign or wearing a police uniform.
So, what we all, me included, have to be wary of is blaming the whole for the actions of the few.
Don't forget, as well, that the people within the targets of protest have rights to assemble and try to deal with the problems (even if they are doing it in a bad way) without being subject to violence. Let's not automatically assume that whomever is being protested automatically lose all their rights just so the protestors can do whatever they want. Then, as long as police allow protestors to do their thing peacefully, and stop legitimate trouble if and when it pops up, then everyone will be happy... well maybe not happy, but at least satisfied that the democratic process is working as it should.
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it's too bad i can't make it to Ottawa to start the riot *sigh*
