[tmcewan]

Ok, where do I begin. If you are a band coming to McMurray of all places to preach your environmental concerns, you're really asking for it. People here are living in an overpopulated, underdevloped city working their asses off so that the machine that is North America can keep turning.
The amenities here are sorely lacking and the city has a difficult time attracting acts as far as I can tell, so KUDOS to the hip for giving them a chance! I am proud of them for giving it their best shot, for driving 4.5 hours up a dangerous highway to play a show for people.

Doesn't chris realize that the McMurray machine is a necessary evil at this point in time? The oilsands exist because there is a massive demand for their product, and the fact that the oilsands are running 24/7 is a says more about North America than it does Fort McMurray. Fort Mac is DRIVEN BY THE CONSUMERS. It is not like the oil produced in Fort Mac is used by FM residents only, it is used across the board! Each and every person in North America is partly to blame for the state of the environment as they are the users that increase the demand.

Are bands not supposed to play Columbia because that's where the coke comes from?

As an aside, I'll have you know that the headquarters housing the brains of the operations are generally in Calgary. If anyone is directing Fort Mac to "turn it up a notch, we need more!" it is not the people of McMurray, it is the boards back in Calgary, so yeah, by your logic the hip may as well stick to Eastern Canada.

[chris]

Ok, where do I begin. If you are a band coming to McMurray of all places to preach your environmental concerns, you're really asking for it.

Who suggested that they go there and preach? Not me. I suggested they not go.

People here are living in an overpopulated, underdevloped city working their asses off so that the machine that is North America can keep turning.
The amenities here are sorely lacking and the city has a difficult time attracting acts as far as I can tell, so KUDOS to the hip for giving them a chance! I am proud of them for giving it their best shot, for driving 4.5 hours up a dangerous highway to play a show for people.

With all the money being generated there, why is it sorely lacking anything?

Doesn't chris realize that the McMurray machine is a necessary evil at this point in time?

No it isn't. We should have said screw the preservation of the earth is more important. We should invest in alternative solutions that utilize non-polluting, renewable resources.

The oilsands exist because there is a massive demand for their product, and the fact that the oilsands are running 24/7 is a says more about North America than it does Fort McMurray. Fort Mac is DRIVEN BY THE CONSUMERS. It is not like the oil produced in Fort Mac is used by FM residents only, it is used across the board! Each and every person in North America is partly to blame for the state of the environment as they are the users that increase the demand.

You're missing my point, or I'm not, just like everyone else on my side of the discussion, able to convince you of alternatives.

Are bands not supposed to play Columbia because that's where the coke comes from?

What does cocaine have to do with this? The issue is the environment and what we, as Canadians, as world citizens can do locally to enact global change.

As an aside, I'll have you know that the headquarters housing the brains of the operations are generally in Calgary. If anyone is directing Fort Mac to "turn it up a notch, we need more!" it is not the people of McMurray, it is the boards back in Calgary, so yeah, by your logic the hip may as well stick to Eastern Canada.

Your "logic" is warped. You said it is the rest of North America that is to blame, and now just Calgary? So by your "logic", they should not play any shows, any where, ever, unless we can find an environmental utopia.

I'll leave this thread for discussing the show - start a new thread if you want to discuss the environment.

[Billy]

Since this is the direction this thread is going, I wonder what you fellas down east, with your huge population, your factories, your power plants and such, are doing to the environment? I'm assuming not much good. I don't think the great lakes have faired so well. Maybe the band should not play anywhere in the GTA.

Come on now...stick it to the man, not the fan.

[prairieman]

With all the money being generated there, why is it sorely lacking anything?

Trust me it lacks a lot of things, it is an absolute shithole, the service industry is non-existent, It's bad enough here in Edmonton, but up there it is a gong show. Places have to cut their business hours and even close their doors because they can't find people to work those jobs, and the ones that do don't give a flying fuck because you're trapped up there really. If you complain, and they get fired, they'll either get a better paying job in the sands, or land another shitty service job the very next day. A lot of them are starting to turn up here in Edmonton, living in a tent city downtown.

The vacancy rate is also a nightmare, sure people can get work but finding a place to stay is difficult and extremely exspensive. A good friend of mine pays close to $900 a month to sleep on a couch and have access to a bathroom. No fridge, no stove, no TV....shitty situations like that.

I am not wading into this environment debate, nor am I trying to defend the beer tossing idots at this particular show.

I have lived in Alberta all 37 years of my life, I have been to Fort Mac numerous times (once was enough). All I am trying to do is give an Easterner some facts from a primary source regarding Fort Mac, Alberta. I am guessing you've never been there chris.

When this date was first announced I knew in my gut it would be a shitshow, let's not let that seep into the cool environment you guys got goin here

Thank you, that is all.[/url]

[chris]

Thanks for the insight prairieman.

I have not been there, and it's not on my list of places to visit - judging by your comments, it never will be.

So aside from the environmental damage, it sounds like the oil sand operations are causing a lot of social damage as well. I bet the people of Fort McMurray are excited by news that Conoco wants to extend its pipeline to the Gulf coast to process more oil from the sands...

[prairieman]

like the oil sand operations are causing a lot of social damage as well

Oh yea, no question there Chris. Grande Prairie is getting just as bad, so scratch that off your list too :wink:

My personal opinion is that this boom here in Alberta is doing more harm than good for the majority of the population.

It's too bad for the folks up there, no big bands are going to want to go up there to play, they'll be stuck with Trooper concerts for years to come cause those guys aren't ever going to die. :wink:

edited for horrible spelling

[jeromio]

Ahhhh good ole capitalism....... We are all victims of our own pursuits, "WE LIVE TO SURVIVE OUR PARADOXES"

[tmcewan]

"Who suggested that they go there and preach? Not me. I suggested they not go. "

The Heron Outside did.

"With all the money being generated there, why is it sorely lacking anything?"

The other guys did a great job of answering that.

"No it isn't. We should have said screw the preservation of the earth is more important. We should invest in alternative solutions that utilize non-polluting, renewable resources."

"Ok, I don't think anybody would dispute that, but the fact is that it is simply not realistic right now. As alternative methods become available, mcmurray will be phased out, but as it stands mcmurray exists because there is no alternative to make available this massive quantity of energy."

"You're missing my point, or I'm not, just like everyone else on my side of the discussion, able to convince you of alternatives."

I think you being overly optimistic, and the fact that you didn't even understand why mcmurray is underdeveloped, to me, says that you don't know what you are talking about.

"What does cocaine have to do with this? The issue is the environment and what we, as Canadians, as world citizens can do locally to enact global change."

It's nothing more than an analogy for the sake of comparison. Here's another - what about in Ontario where all the cars are manufactured, the cars that burn the fuel, should gord skip those places too?

"Your "logic" is warped. You said it is the rest of North America that is to blame, and now just Calgary? So by your "logic", they should not play any shows, any where, ever, unless we can find an environmental utopia."

I'm saying that Calgary tells McMurray what to do, generally, and that Calgary bases their decisions on economic factors from all over North America.

I can summarize my point like this - everybody that consumes fuel is part of the reason that Fort McMurray exists, so please articulate to me why it makes sense for a band to avoid such a city.