Canadian Fans at American Shows - Printable Version
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Canadian Fans at American Shows - scrasch - 10-04-2004
Since most of the people who visit Hipbase and who post are Canadian, I wanted to ask a question of anyone willing to answer. Now, let me start by saying I have nothing against Canadians.
My question is, what's the deal with the propriety over the band that some Canadian fans tend to have on display at the shows? I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand the love for the band. It's truly impressive to see the people and their dedication but some take it a little too far with the waving of the Canadian flag and the incessant clamoring to show off their "I am Canadian" hats to the band. My problem with it isn't the display, it's the fact that it's disrespectful to the people who are behind the flag or the guy waving his hat or shirts or whatever. They paid their money and, in a lot of cases, are more excited to see the band than many Canadians at the show.
The reason I bring this up is because I've stood behind the flag waving Canadians and I was unfortunate enough to almost get into a fight with some drunk idiot who almost got into a fight with no fewer than 6 other people in the area and who uttered this little gem -- "I'm Canadian" -- as if to imply that he has some kind of priority over people who aren't Canadian. To tell you the truth, it's not really a novelty. At most of the shows more than 50% of the people there are Canadian. So, waving the flag and showing your Canadian pride doesn't really set you apart like you'd like.
As I said, I understand the pride and I know that it's by far not the majority of the Canadian fans...all I ask is that there is that some degree of respect is given to the other fans at the show. They want to see the band just as bad as you do. Maybe more because sometimes it seems as though the whole point of their being at the show is to display their flag to the band.
So, let the flaming commence...
- jontaylor - 10-04-2004
Americans wave their flag every opportunity they get, we do it at a hip show, and you "can't see". DEAL WITH IT
- scottitude - 10-04-2004
At least you sound like you're ready for the fray!
It's a good question, but it's got to be kept in perspective. I've been to few more shows than you but not as many as numerous others and while I've found the overly proud flag-wavers to be annoying as hell, most of my experiences have been enjoyable, and most road-tripping Canadians I've met have been genuinely cool people. Like anything, there are always exceptions. It is curious though, and I agree: I've often felt that the more obnoxious ones are simply there to say "look how far I came to be an obnoxious fool".
Any show, regardless of the band or locale is gonna bring a fair number of a-holes. It sounds like you've had some atypical experiences so don't let it sour you. With more shows will come more positive encounters.
Rock on1 :thumb:
~Scott
- grooveless touque - 10-04-2004
There is nothing wrong with the 99.9% of Canadian fans who wave flags and wear Team Canada jerseys, etc. Americans are more boastful of their national allegiance than anybody else on earth. You cannot complain about Canucks living in the US who get a chance to revel in their Canadian-ness a couple nights a year.
As for the fights, don't let those cloud your judgment. Obviously only a couple people in a crowd of thousands are going to be like that - we're not militantly patriotic!
- scrasch - 10-04-2004
jontaylor Wrote:Americans wave their flag every opportunity they get, we do it at a hip show, and you "can't see". DEAL WITH IT
That's a well reasoned argument. I like how you addressed all of the points laid out in my post.
I had hoped that this wouldn't be a Canadians vs. The American thread but it seems as though right out of the gate, that's where you have decided to go with it. What I was trying to find out is why my love for the band is somehow secondary to yours. I try to let everyone see the show. I make sure that I don't fight my way up to the front and plant myself right in front of someone shorter than me. Oftentimes, I let people who are shorter than me move in front of me so that they can get a good view of the boys. These are things I do to be respectful of the other fans and their desire to see the show. Maybe I'm being too classy.
Again, I haven't been to a concert in Canada. Not a Hip concert or any other for that matter and if I'm speaking out of turn, feel free to chastize me but I would wager to say that there aren't too many Americans waving American flags at Red Hot Chili Pepper shows or Audioslave shows or Tool shows or any of the other shows put on by American born bands.
- scottitude - 10-04-2004
jontaylor Wrote:Americans wave their flag every opportunity they get, we do it at a hip show, and you "can't see". DEAL WITH IT
Strike a nerve, newbie? Scrasch's query was relative to "some" Canadians, not all. For the record, I don't own a flag and therefore I don't wave it anywhere. How many shows have you been to in the states, and how many American flags have you seen preventing someone from enjoying the $30 - $70 they paid to see the show?
I can see I was wrong to refrain from blaming it on belligerent self-entitled frat-boys.
Rock off :censored
~Scott
- HandsInTheRiver41 - 10-04-2004
This really has nothing to do with Canadians or Americans, its just obnoxious people at shows. I've been to many concerts and I'm fine with people waving flags, or holding up signs, if its just for no more than a minute. But when people are holding a sign up, blocking the view of like 25 people for an entire set, its damn annoying and obnoxious.
The same goes for waving flags, although I've never experienced that problem at a show.
- tommygunn - 10-04-2004
HandsInTheRiver41 Wrote:This really has nothing to do with Canadians or Americans, its just obnoxious people at shows.Exactly.
Unfortunately, there are going to be assholes wherever you go in this world.
Stupidity has no boundaries.
:what
By the way, wasn't this topic discussed a few months back?
- boot - 10-04-2004
Sure... this topic probably gets discussed like clockwork....
When I see the Hip here in Canada, there's always a**holes pushing their way to the front, and they come up with novel excuses, like "my girlfriend's up there", or "I love this song".... whatever.
Seeing the Hip in the states, there's still a bunch of a**holes pushing their way up to the front using new excuses. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, "I'm Canadian" may not meant to imply "I come from the same country as the band", it might mean "I drove a long way to get here, shotgunned a couple of beers in the parking lot, and now I really want to get to the front".
The flag-waving? Well, it's the only time you'll see a Canadian wave a flag. That, I can't explain. I figure it's gotta be an attention-getting thing. "LOOK! I'm waving a Canadian flag! Look over here!".
And then I can tell my friends about the time Gord Downie looked at me. Disapprovingly.
- jen - 10-04-2004
tommygunn Wrote:By the way, wasn't this topic discussed a few months back?
Yes it was...in a few different threads but here is the one that relates the most:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forum.hipbase.com/viewtopic.php?t=2581&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=rush+territories&start=30">http://forum.hipbase.com/viewtopic.php? ... s&start=30</a><!-- m -->
Hopefully this thread wont turn into another who's better thread.
- Chris Tanz - 10-04-2004
"the only time you'll see a Canadian wave a flag."
Obviously not including metaphorical flag waving, which--like our daily ping pong between self-loathing and self-righteousness--is incessant.
I've seen more blurry lights than starless nights,
CT
- tragicallymike - 10-05-2004
i honestly think that with some its an inferiority complex from living in the shadow of the United States. And no that isnt meant as an insult. The U.S. obviously gets more attention in the world(for good and bad reasons)than Canada does.
I could be wrong but i dont think the actual flag is taken as seriously in Canada as it is in the United States. You can go to jail for burning a flag here, im fairly certain thats not the case in Canada. We probably take the flag to seriously in the U.S. and im also guessing thats not the case in Canada. Thats probably why you dont see Americans doing the same.
But, it does get annoying. I have no problem with the Team Canada jerseys and the maple leafs jerseys because I for one always wear a Sabres or Bills hat to a show just so i can meet people who came from the same area. But the flag waving when done to a rediculous point is a tad bit overbearing.
- skippy the wonder dog - 10-05-2004
That's awful close, but that's not why ... it's not so much an inferiority complex as a chance to get their own back. When (to cite a current example) the Canadian public is being forced to buy into a missile defence scheme they object to, under the threat of unspecified sanctions, a certain sense of injustice builds. I don't think the flag-wavers are really conscious of what they're doing, but they're essentially finding a way to give the US the finger. They're feeding back all the overbearing behavior that your government and media have subjected them to (including, btw, the assumption that we all must feel inferior to the US simply because our government doesn't carry a big stick on the world stage), and being overbearing right back. American Hip fans end up the unfortunate victims.
Obnoxious? Sure, no question. Inevitable? Likewise.
- CanuckCourage - 10-05-2004
I agree with Skippy , i think that's a big part of it..I'm just gonna copy and paste what I said in a topic long ago, it's my take on patriotism at hip concerts.
Maybe I can breath a little insight into this Phenomenon, being a Canadian I will speak my view. I have read several times that Americans are confused/disgusted/dumbfounded at this flag waving behaviour. I have never seen a Hip show down south , but I'll hazard a guess many are Ex-Pats. Keeping your identity in another country and celebrating it, will be exercised with other Canadians in a few select settings, gatherings , hockey games, or in this case a rock concert . Imagine a band that represesents what you love about your country , a band that refers to Canada regularly in it's music and refuses to pander to the commercial element of the music business . They are the biggest Canadian Band, bar none. These gatherings, I would think would be one of the few places to express your heritage in an atmosphere of music and partying, a showing of Nationalistic pride and a brief grasp of what was once in your life and still is inside the heart . Add alcohol to this and there will be obnoxiousness, regardless if it's in Ohio or Ontario. Complete release of pride with a misguided air of arrogance and drunken stupidity. This is not to excuse it , but simply to help explain it . While you may be there to experience a band who's music you love and appreciate, to others there it may go a whole lot deeper than the music, past it, into fanatasizm born out of suppressed patriotism as opposed to the more American proliferated patriotism . This is a small slice of one part of it, in my opinion. As for this not occuring at Neil Young, Gordon Lightfoot and Rush concerts...Well Lightfoot is 65 or 66 years old , his demographic consists of much older crowd into the folk scene. I have yet to hear Bitter Green or Early Morning Rain played at a hockey game and I have never seen crowd surfing or flag waving at a folk gathering either. Rush and Neil Young also have an older demographic. The Hips older material , Blow, New O, 50 Mission Cap, Fireworks etc etc...are played here regularly everyday on rock stations, the youth today are still influenced by the older more rocked out Hip, as compared to IVL, this also lends to the frenzied flag waving patrons (age factor). Finally I think Anti Americanism plays a part in this . Incidents such as Butchering the National Anthem, hanging the Flag Upside Down ,Canadian NHL teams moving south, having an American ref call 8 consecutive penalties in an Olympic Gold Medal Hockey Game etc..etc.. These may seem trivial in the grand scheme of things(and they are) , but they all add to the sentiment. I will not delve into the political and societal differences which are great as well. It all adds to a "us vs them" attitude. I speak of the majority of Americans , not all obviously. Maybe this help shed a little light on flag waving.
Mark
- AndGraceToo - 10-05-2004
Canadians are, hands-down, the most fun, polite (while still being rowdy), crowd I have consistently seen. I'm at the age now where crowd plays a huge part of my going to a show, and I never once, have I questioned going to a Hip show because of Canadian fans.
Wanna see obnoxious? Try a Springsteen show in Philly...that will make you wanna kill someone..
(((slams bourbon))))