We Are The Same Discussion - Printable Version
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Re: We Are The Same Discussion - tigerthelion - 05-13-2009
direwolf74 Wrote:Escape@Hand Wrote:MattPower Wrote:This album is simply awesome. The last time I was into a Hip album this much was waaay back when Day For Night came out. I feel bad for the people who can't fully appreciate this album for what it is. ...wicked.
I couldn't disagree more. I'm waiting for the day the Hip release something as good as DFN. I don't think it will happen but I can hope. I appreciate what this album is: mediocre pop songs buried in string orchestration.
And I couldn't disagree more with you. I freakin' LOVE this album. I would easily rank songs like Morning Moon, The Last Recluse, The Depression Suite, Queen of the Furrows, Speed River, Frozen in My Tracks, and Country Day among the Hip's best work. Is it as good as Day for Night? No. But it's a fantastic album nonetheless, full of warmth, melody, and sophistication. It's the best thing they've done since Phantom Power in my opinion. I can't get enough of it.
What is so sophisticated about this album other than the unnecessary overuse of background vocals and instruments?
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - direwolf74 - 05-13-2009
tigerthelion Wrote:What is so sophisticated about this album other than the unnecessary overuse of background vocals and instruments?
To me there's just an overall sophistication to the entire record that wasn't really noticeable on WC or IBE, in terms of songwriting, lyrics, arrangements, intstrumentation...everything. They really stepped out of their comfort zone with this one. This album has the ambition of Music@Work, but with better songs. A few years ago I don't think they would've dared to try something like the Depression Suite. But after 20 years and 11 albums, it seems to me that they decided to throw caution to the wind, and said "fuck it, let's try something we've never done before." A 9-minute epic comprising three different songs? Let's do it. Strings? Why not. A trumpet solo? Sure, what the hell. Layered vocals? Let's try it. Did they go overboard with the extra layers? Maybe on a couple of the songs. But I don't think it takes anything away from the material itself. Despite Bob Rock's glossy production, I think these songs have a real warmth to them, and Gord's vocal performance is easily the best he's ever given in the studio. I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record, as I've already mentioned all this stuff at least three times throughout this thread while defending the album. In the end, some of us love this record...and some of us don't. And at this point it's obvious that neither party is going to budge. I say we just leave it at that and enjoy the live shows. Who knows? Maybe the band will strip it back down to basics for the next record and put out an album full of 3-minute punk-rock songs. That's what I love about the Hip. They're never predictable and each new album brings something unexpected to the table.
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - tigerthelion - 05-13-2009
direwolf74 Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:What is so sophisticated about this album other than the unnecessary overuse of background vocals and instruments?
To me there's just an overall sophistication to the entire record that wasn't really noticeable on WC or IBE, in terms of songwriting, lyrics, arrangements, intstrumentation...everything. They really stepped out of their comfort zone with this one. This album has the ambition of Music@Work, but with better songs. A few years ago I don't think they would've dared to try something like the Depression Suite. But after 20 years and 11 albums, it seems to me that they decided to throw caution to the wind, and said "f**k it, let's try something we've never done before." A 9-minute epic comprising three different songs? Let's do it. Strings? Why not. A trumpet solo? Sure, what the hell. Layered vocals? Let's try it. Did they go overboard with the extra layers? Maybe on a couple of the songs. But I don't think it takes anything away from the material itself. Despite Bob Rock's glossy production, I think these songs have a real warmth to them, and Gord's vocal performance is easily the best he's ever given in the studio. I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record, as I've already mentioned all this stuff at least three times throughout this thread while defending the album. In the end, some of us love this record...and some of us don't. And at this point it's obvious that neither party is going to budge. I say we just leave it at that and enjoy the live shows. Who knows? Maybe the band will strip it back down to basics for the next record and put out an album full of 3-minute punk-rock songs. That's what I love about the Hip. They're never predictable and each new album brings something unexpected to the table.
Fair enough. Like I've said before, I don't hate the album or anything. I don't think it ranks among Gord's best work as a lyricist, and I don't think that it's easily the best vocals from Gord,either.
If I go to a live show in this tour, you better believe that I'll enjoy the show. In spite of Bob Rock's best efforts to make the band sound like Coldplay, I still enjoyed the WC live shows so I'm sure it's gonna be the same with this tour (if I go). The Hip are still a great band. Even if I hated WATS, it wouldn't be a big deal because it's cool to see the band trying new things. I think that's great. I'd rather see them experiment than stagnate, and I don't think I could every truly hate a full length Hip record anyway.
I mean, with every Hip record, there are gonna be people who like it and people who don't like it so much. I think hearing from both sides makes for an interesting discussion. Heck, Neil Young made some crappy albums along the way but the fact that he's fearless is part of his appeal and part of the reason why he's such a musical icon.
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - Escape@Hand - 05-13-2009
direwolf74 Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:What is so sophisticated about this album other than the unnecessary overuse of background vocals and instruments?
To me there's just an overall sophistication to the entire record that wasn't really noticeable on WC or IBE, in terms of songwriting, lyrics, arrangements, intstrumentation...everything. They really stepped out of their comfort zone with this one. This album has the ambition of Music@Work, but with better songs. A few years ago I don't think they would've dared to try something like the Depression Suite. But after 20 years and 11 albums, it seems to me that they decided to throw caution to the wind, and said "f**k it, let's try something we've never done before." A 9-minute epic comprising three different songs? Let's do it. Strings? Why not. A trumpet solo? Sure, what the hell. Layered vocals? Let's try it. Did they go overboard with the extra layers? Maybe on a couple of the songs. But I don't think it takes anything away from the material itself. Despite Bob Rock's glossy production, I think these songs have a real warmth to them, and Gord's vocal performance is easily the best he's ever given in the studio. I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record, as I've already mentioned all this stuff at least three times throughout this thread while defending the album. In the end, some of us love this record...and some of us don't. And at this point it's obvious that neither party is going to budge. I say we just leave it at that and enjoy the live shows. Who knows? Maybe the band will strip it back down to basics for the next record and put out an album full of 3-minute punk-rock songs. That's what I love about the Hip. They're never predictable and each new album brings something unexpected to the table.
Well The Depression Suite was Bob's idea, and while Paul L. was the one who brought those three songs to the table to combine into the D.S., Rock has to take a lot of the credit for things like that. And while I agree that Gord's vocals (both the lyrics and actual singing) are right up there with the best he's done, I find that they are overshadowed by mediocre songwriting. I hate the orchestration and the use of the excess instruments; as I mentioned earlier, it's one thing to try something different, but don't do it just for the sake of being different. If I want a trumpet solo, I'll listen to Miles Davis. And you really think the songs on this are better than M@W? I get so bored with some of the songs on WATS as I find that musically there isn't a lot going on underneath the according/strings, etc. I mean does Struggle really have to be 6+ minutes long? And the only part of Depression Suite that I find really intersting musically is Don't You Want to See How It Ends.
On a related note, is anyone else concerned with how poppy the Hip are getting? If they release another song like Coffee Girl I think I'll vomit. That is easily the worst song on any Hip album!
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - direwolf74 - 05-13-2009
Escape@Hand Wrote:On a related note, is anyone else concerned with how poppy the Hip are getting? If they release another song like Coffee Girl I think I'll vomit. That is easily the worst song on any Hip album!
Too poppy? Nah. Just listen to the back half of the album. The Hip have certainly dabbled with more pop-ish sounds on recent albums (In View, Fly, Coffee Girl, etc..), but they're still a guitar-based rock band at heart. I don't think it's possible for them to get too poppy, as evidenced by songs like Queen of the Furrows, Speed River, Frozen in My Tracks, and Love is a First. Even Country Day and the Exact Feeling have some rockin' moments. I don't hate Coffee Girl, but much like In View, it's definitely the track where I use the skip button the most. I'd argue that Coconut Cream, Are You Ready, and Pretend are worse songs than Coffee Girl.
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - Treakin - 05-13-2009
I love Downie's work on this album, vocals are very emotional and clear, and the lyrics, while not as "cryptic" as some of his earlier work (which I loved) are still very good.
My problem here is the guitar work. Much of Paul's work is drowned out. Also, on some earlier albums they seemed never to play two verses the same. Now I hear repeated "riffs" as if on some tracks they played the chords once through and just overdubbed and repeated them throughout the track.
Not to say I don't like the album, some songs I love I just miss the guitar aspect. Some of the songs have really grown on me. I can't get The Last Recluse outta my head today, love the lyrics.
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - ChickenDancer - 05-13-2009
direwolf74 Wrote:...I don't hate Coffee Girl, but much like In View, it's definitely the track where I use the skip button the most. I'd argue that Coconut Cream, Are You Ready, and Pretend are worse songs than Coffee Girl.Are You Ready is so much better than Coffee Girl!!! They're not even similar in poppiness (is that a word?). AYR at least tries to rock it out...
Hey - has Gordie done the Chicken Dance this tour?!?!?!! :jump
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - Bookhead - 05-13-2009
Well, I've now listened to WATS an average of once per day for the last month and now feel like it's time to weigh in, and I'm sure everyone's waiting with bated breath!
The album has really grown on me, but the same can be said for probably every Hip album. This one, though, required a good five or so listens before I felt like I took it all in and could make a decision. I'll go out on a limb here and say that this album is a keeper, and one we as fans will look back on as one of the better ones in the band's career.
I know there's been a lot of anti-Bob Rock sentiment here. Yes, he does tend to go for a little too much glossy sheen for my tastes, but the Hip really like him and Gord D. has discussed how much enthusiasm Rock brings to the table. Here is a quote from Gord’s MacLean’s interview (which I’m sure everyone here has already read, but this quote is worth repeating): “There were times I thought I needed to pick up the big circus hammer, swing, and ring the bell. But Bob would come in and gently remind me, ‘You don’t need to do that.’ He didn’t want to lose the intensity at all. I was very challenged but very happy in the studio with Bob pushing me…Bob is a great producer, editor and friend. He takes the task to heart more than anyone I’ve known, to create beautiful songs. He would say that that’s really all it’s ever about.” Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that, in my mind, Bob Rock did a good job on this album. His job is as much a facilitator as a producer, and if the band enjoy him as a producer and a person, what more can we as fans ask?
Back to the album. None of the songs hit you like a sledgehammer, but I do appreciate the chances the band has taken. “Depression Suite” is one of the most interesting things they’ve ever done. They really reach for Beatles’ “Abbey Road, side two” territory and they succeed. I love the third section of the piece, as does my seven year-old son, who sings along, “Don’t you wanna see how it ends” whenever he hears it. I also am a big fan of “The Last Recluse,” and LOVE the Duane Allman-like slide guitar sound on “Honey Please.” I enjoy the laid-back, shuffling beat of “Coffee Girl” and Gord’s storytelling abilities on the tune—reminds me of any number of hipster “coffee girls” I’ve come across over the years. Other highlights: Rob Baker shredding on “Queen of the Furrows” (awesome solo), “Speed River” all the way through “Country Day.” Every one of those songs is excellent, and “Country Day” is a wonderful tune to end the record with.
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - Gusthepolarbear12 - 05-13-2009
ChickenDancer Wrote:direwolf74 Wrote:...I don't hate Coffee Girl, but much like In View, it's definitely the track where I use the skip button the most. I'd argue that Coconut Cream, Are You Ready, and Pretend are worse songs than Coffee Girl.Are You Ready is so much better than Coffee Girl!!! They're not even similar in poppiness (is that a word?). AYR at least tries to rock it out...
Hey - has Gordie done the Chicken Dance this tour?!?!?!! :jump
LOL not that i recall
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - hipnosis - 05-13-2009
I love The Hip!
even if I may or may not love all of their albums :]
:music
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - Stayhip - 05-14-2009
MattPower Wrote:This album is simply awesome. The last time I was into a Hip album this much was waaay back when Day For Night came out. I feel bad for the people who can't fully appreciate this album for what it is. ...wicked.I agree! It saddens me that any HIPFANS could make those comments. They never seize to amaze me and still they are the same. True fans know!
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - tigerthelion - 05-15-2009
Stayhip Wrote:MattPower Wrote:This album is simply awesome. The last time I was into a Hip album this much was waaay back when Day For Night came out. I feel bad for the people who can't fully appreciate this album for what it is. ...wicked.I agree! It saddens me that any HIPFANS could make those comments. They never seize to amaze me and still they are the same. True fans know!
:lol: :lol: So anyone who doesn't drool over WATS isn't a true fan? That's about the most assinine comment I've heard yet in the WATS discussion. :? Come to the table with something better next time. :rambo:
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - tth_fan - 05-15-2009
tigerthelion Wrote:Stayhip Wrote:MattPower Wrote:This album is simply awesome. The last time I was into a Hip album this much was waaay back when Day For Night came out. I feel bad for the people who can't fully appreciate this album for what it is. ...wicked.I agree! It saddens me that any HIPFANS could make those comments. They never seize to amaze me and still they are the same. True fans know!
:lol: :lol: So anyone who doesn't drool over WATS isn't a true fan? That's about the most assinine comment I've heard yet in the WATS discussion. :? Come to the table with something better next time. :rambo:
And welcome to hipbase.... :welcome :oops:
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - spottrax - 05-15-2009
The simple fact is that The Hip GREW UP. Whether we as fans want to follow the path they have taken is up to us. I like it personally. Are there nights when I would rather hear Road Apples than WC or WATS? Of course. However, I believe with the majority of hipfans on here that WATS is a brave and solid effort.
As stated by so many here, WATS is very different.
I truly love many parts of it but after a month of listens I do have a couple of issues with it.
#1 WATS is mastered TOO LOUD. I am sure Bob Rock will tell you that it is line with every new album that comes out today and he would be correct but back to back with the rest of the hip catalog (pre WC) and it nearly blows my speakers out.
#2 Personally, I completely get what GD is going for on WATS lyrically but I prefere pre WC were I would have to refrence a dictionary or Wikipidia or something to figure out what the heck he is writing about!
With that out of my system I can honestly say that think Morning Moon, Honey Please, Last Recluse, Depression Suite (especially the first part of it), Exact Feeling and yes Coffee Girl are among the bands best work. Especially Coffee Girl. I am surprised that Coffee Girl wasnt released to radio as a single. That little tune has a feel that reminds me of some of GD's solo stuff ie...Chancelor.
Some of the bands that I really like a decade or two ago (i know im aging myself) either are not together anymore (midnight oil, replacements) or make albums that are way too radio safe (U2, REM). We are fortunate that the Hip can still take chances...even if they are steering the band in a direction that seems a bit mellower...
The Hip are Growing up... I'm staying on for the ride!!! :thumb:
Re: We Are The Same Discussion - tigerthelion - 05-15-2009
tth_fan Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:Stayhip Wrote:I agree! It saddens me that any HIPFANS could make those comments. They never seize to amaze me and still they are the same. True fans know!
:lol: :lol: So anyone who doesn't drool over WATS isn't a true fan? That's about the most assinine comment I've heard yet in the WATS discussion. :? Come to the table with something better next time. :rambo:
And welcome to hipbase.... :welcome :oops:
:lol: That, too.