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- MattGE - 05-06-2003

Kim Wrote:You're kidding right?

Where in the story can I find the metaphor representing Iraq's oil?

Ah, yet again another sucker on the "oil" bandwagon. The only thing the oil revenues are going to be used for is to rebuild Iraq, not to fuel up our soccer mom SUVs. If we wanted the oil cheap we would have ignored Iraq (ala UN) and eased/lifted sanctions for more oil. It's people like you Kim that give hippies a bad name. Why don't you THINK about an educated excuse instead of echoing the meaningless campus propaganda of others?

I realize that any story could be made to support both sides of this argument, I just wanted to share it. I love my country with great passion and even though I sometimes disagree with our ethics and morals as a society, I have pride in what we are. I have probably been to more countries than you have been to territories. I have seen people in Mumbai walking on their hands because they have been stricken with polio, sick children in the middle of the intersection in Manila begging for change. I know how good we have it and how easily we could lose it with a turn of the cheek. We HAVE to be involved with other countries policies, because believe me, there is a lot out there that CNN doesn't know. If someone is even thinking about planting something in my back yard or molding a plan of destruction within our borders, I should hope that there are more people like me that are willing to support and defend.

Matt

- Beat - 05-06-2003

Glad to hear that Matt. So the US will "liberate" a lot of small African countries next. Because, as you know of course because you've probably been there, people are killed there as well for no apparant reason. At least, if someone will tell your great president where those countries are. Yeah.....dream on.

- Entropy - 05-06-2003

"I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window,
looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husbands questions
and he tells him...."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man....he's at your front door..."WHAT
DO YOU DO?!!!!"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He
balls up this tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes,
without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT
GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM,
DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs my son to his
chest and hugs him tight, and cries..."It's too late to fight him,
he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you
should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife. You have to do
what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before......it's too
late." my husband whispers.

So the next day our son comes up to me and asks, "Daddy, how come when I told my teacher this parable she asked why you helped Saddam Hussein beat the shit out of his next door neighbour and his wife in the 80"s?"

My husband replied, "Well son, uh, that was different"

"How so?"

"Well, uh, there was this uhhhh.....you remember 9/11?"

"Yes daddy"

"Well, that was done by Muslims, and Saddam is a Muslim, so there is a connection there, however tenuous it may be"

"Didn't Osama Bin Laden call Saddam a "bad Muslim"? Isn't that like saying the Pope is connected to the Irish Republican Army because he"s Catholic?"

"Where do you come up with stuff? No patriotic, Bush-fearing....I mean God-fearing media would serve up this un-American propaganda!"

"I saw it on the Hipbase, daddy!"

"Damn Canadians (and Europeans, and right-thinking Americans)! I heard that they were gonna grab their wives by the hair and beat them up. It's time for a pre-emptive liberation, son!!!!"

"Before that daddy, as I was walking home I noticed lots of other "Saddam Husseins" beating up their wives on the other side of the street. Should we do anything about it??"

"No son"

"Why not daddy? What the difference between Mr. Hussein and all those others? Why should we act only against him, using liberation as our rallying cry, when there are many others who are even worse off than Mrs Hussein was? What is so different?? Is it because Mr Hussein has a pool that you would like to use and no-one else does???"

"Go ask your mother!!!!"

- Storm - 05-06-2003

oh yeah.. there may be one problem.. those countries don't have any oil.
but that won't matter... does it?

- HIPpyLettuce - 05-06-2003

Wow MattGE, your posts keep getting more and more unintellectual. That post was such a crock of shit. If you ACTUALLY believe that then I truly feel sorry for you. You are much more blinded than I first anticipated. Its it is ignorant americans like yourself that people have a blanketing dislike for the USA.

For one, bush did not go into Iraq to protect anyone. That is a pile of shit. He went in because of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' (or so we're told), then the reason for war changed to 'Liberating the Iraqi People' (again, so we're told). You and I do not even know the real reasons the US is fighting this war. You just believe the crap fed to you by your supperiors and that is the final word, its the gospel!

I am truly appalled that you honestly believe crap like your pathetic post about the 9 year old.. what garbage. Maybe its time to open your eyes matt and look at your own country. WOMEN are beat to death. CHILDREN are beat to death. There are poor poeple living on the streets, not because they CHOOSE to because they HAVE to. Maybe the US needs to take its bloody long nose out of the rest of the world and try to save itself. Do you really not notice the economicly challenged people in your own country?? Of course you do.. they are bums.. vagrants.. a problem.. a nuisance.. an eye sore..

HELP THEM. Quit helping those who are not asking for help. When you are walking down the street I bet you just walk right past pan handlers and such on the streets of your hometown. The thought of helping them probably doesn't cross your mind. Instead you brag about all the places you've been and all the hardship you've seen.

How about hookers? got any of those in your hometown? I bet you think they are just sex craved women.. Guess again. I seriously doubt you'll find many prostitutes that actually enjoy what they do.. or any that wouldn't give an arm to be well off and live in a nice neighborhood like you. And instead of helping your fellow americans you turn a blind eye and start whining about other countries who aren't even asking for your help. How heroic MattGE, how heroic.

you are so blindly ignorant its beyond funny now. At first it was mildly amusing. now its just pathetic. And as for Kim giving hippies a bad name.. no, its people like Kim that make Canada an awesome caring place to live. If you have nothing semi intellectual to say just don't say anything.. no one cares about your petty remarks about hippies. Its getting old.

- HIPpyLettuce - 05-06-2003

Entropy, that was truly beautiful. It almost brought tears to my eyes!

- Storm - 05-06-2003

I would love to dry those tears.. as your loving neighbour :lol:

- Kim - 05-06-2003

Quote:The only thing the oil revenues are going to be used for is to rebuild Iraq, not to fuel up our soccer mom SUVs.

Matt, Matt, Matt....how gullible you are.

Did you know that:

...There are 12 nations with nuclear weapons programs, 13 with biological weapons, 16 with chemical weapons, and 28 with ballistic missiles that serve as potential threats to the United States. Only one of those countries sits atop the second largest oil reserves in the world--> Iraq ( 112 billion barrels of crude oil)

...The US administration has made no secret of the fact that it would rather accept international condemnation and egregious environmental harm than consider even modest measures to lessen its dependence on oil.

...The National Energy Policy Report, released by the White House in May 2001, noted the growing US dependence on foreign oil. Imported oil supplies accounted for half of US oil consumption in 2000 and is expected to jump to two-thirds by 2020.

...American oil companies-many with ties to senior officials in the Bush Administration-have been banished from direct involvement in Iraq since the late 1980s, and stand to profit enormously from a post-Hussein government friendly to the United States.

...Industry officials assert that the US-led ouster of Hussein could open a bonanza for American oil companies by scuttling oil deals between Iraq and other countries and reshuffling world petroleum markets in favor of US oil firms.

I did not and still am not claiming that Iraqi oil is the sole purpose for the United States' decision to enter Iraq. Saddam's regime was intolerable, unacceptable and tons of people have been liberated as a result of what the US did, no doubt about that.
However I refuse to believe that the US are acting purely out of the goodness of their hearts. Had there been no monetary gain for them over there, they would not have pursued their actions in Iraq. I really believe that.

You see along with coal, the drive for 'black gold' has reigned supreme as the core organizing principle of the Bush-Cheney Energy Plan. This principal has driven a number of shortsighted policies, including the defeat of efforts to improve fuel economy, a refusal to join other nations in support of the Kyoto Protocol on global warming, an end to the EPA's practice of including CO2 emissions in its pollution reports, a push to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and, most recently, an undermining of efforts in Johannesburg to set specific global goals for solar and wind energy production.

This isn't meaningless campus propaganda (??), its the truth and yes the truth hurts. Perhaps if CNN spent more time focusing on issues such as the ones above, Americans wouldn't be as ignorant as they (often) are.
Besides I would have expected a traveller of the universe such as yourself to have a broader scope on the things going on in the world. You've seen Manila and Mumbai, yet you have no idea what is going on within your own nation.

- Beat - 05-06-2003

Damn....Matt has to suffer severe beatings....someone come to his rescue....Wink

- Storm - 05-06-2003

any volunteers???

- Kim - 05-06-2003

Bravo Hippy Lettuce and Bravo Entropy. Your posts were much appreciated!! :thumb: :thumb:

- Kim - 05-06-2003

No I'll pass thanks..... :rambo:

- CanuckCourage - 05-06-2003

Hey MattGE , why don't you come up with some facts instead of this regurgitated propaganda . Try something other than Copy and Paste . You seem to think this is an issue of U.S. vs Saddam . This is an issue of U.S. corporate interests . Look into your countrie's history and the roles it's played in propping up dictators . I have a feeling you don't even take in these posts in any kind of intellectual way . People mostly post on here with a list of reasons for the stances they hold , I haven't heard one educated response for supporting this invasion . All I've heard is "I Support My Country" , "I Support The President" , "Go Georgie" . If being a Hippie means using your brain then call me a Hippie too . None of the reasons the Bush Administration has given for this invasion hold any water . They are full of hypocrisy and contradiction . A simple look at the facts unavoidably points to this . Discussion on whether Iraq has WMD is inconsequential . To do this ,one would have to believe that the U.S. is actually there for that reason , or for liberation or regime change . They are there for corporate , economical and military reasons .


The people of Iraq are purely pawns in this game of misinformation used for political advantage . Multi-national Corporations of the World exploit third world countries for their resources and for lucrative financial gains . Regimes get a cut and people work in these factories for a miniscule amount , enough to barely survive while the corporations rake in huge profit . Iraq is nothing but a extension of corporate interests . The Bush administration and their buddies reap in the harvest of political , military and financial gains . That is my view .

Hipkid33 you support MattGE's view , I'm curious , why?


Great job on your post Entropy - great parody ! :thumb: Kim that was an excellent post - very informative . You make some good points H.Lettuce . Beat , Storm , Kim if you ever come to Canada you have a place to stay ! (Call it Hippie Commune . :wink: )

- dyersbay - 05-06-2003

There are to many things to think reagarding this war.
I don't think it is just..however I think that the world is a better place with out Saddam!
However with that being said there are to many things to argue.
Quite honestly I don't think I am informed enough to debate them.
But I am happy he is not longer in power!

- MattGE - 05-06-2003

Wow, I really get you guys going eh? Confusedhock: You guys are fun. :wink: