Watching Maverick's video... - Printable Version
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- Killer Whale Tank - 08-10-2005
There's no issue here. Someone asked about Mav (reasonable, on its face); Mav tried to establish some parameters, saying he doesn't want to be a subject of discussion (also very reasonable). That should settle it. If an acquaintance tells me that they don't like to talk about X or Y, I don't keep pressing them on it. That would make me an asshole.
- Chris Tanz - 08-10-2005
I think the disquiet set in when something being referred to as "MAv's video" was linked with "pron clips of people taking care of their own business" ...
I agree with KWT that this whole thing is a non-event.
ct
- Billy - 08-10-2005
Yeah, so ummm...how about the DVD/Yer Favorites package coming out in November?
- rocketsan22 - 08-10-2005
I'm going to drop this after this point as I think words get misconstrued from time to time. I'm bothered by the attitude some of us persent on this board, a certain Hiper than thouness that settles in on some people here. Mav, keep doing great work, I enjoyed your video...er...the Hip video...and to everyone else, I choose not to argue. I've been a fan of the band since I was in grade six, I'm 33 now. I don't feel the need to continue arguing over trivial matters such as this, I have better things to focus my energy on.
Chris, I guess we're like oil and water and aren't ever going to see eye to eye, so back to lurking for my Hip chats I go...
- Lizard King - 08-10-2005
Oh yeah, Ive been a hip fan since I was in grade 8 and now Im 27, beat that someone!!!!!!!! :rambo:
- Problem Bear - 08-10-2005
Okay, speaking strictly of the video:
APPLAUSE:
Love the sound check. I've never heard Dire Wolf live. (A)
Gord's discussion and performance of Springtime is the kind of stuff diehards kill for, and the kind of stuff that can get casual fans more interested. Kudos. (A+)
The jam footage was nice. ©
Getting a sneak peek at No Threat was super. (B+)
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM:
The jam footage was too long for my tastes, especially since you couldn't skip ahead (or back) with whatever sort of media viewer that was. ©
The text on the screen was really hokey (no offense, just giving my feedback). It was necessary during the Gord interview, but it was sort of silly when it said stuff like, "Paul's over here" or "We're in here." I was getting a Schoolhouse Rock vibe. Perhaps some find that charming. (D)
Seeing/hearing two songs that we've seen a million times before with camcorder sound and obtuse angles wasn't bad, exactly, but not particularly necessary either. ©
Those are my two cents. Hope you take them in the friendly spirit they're intended. Keep up the fabulous work.
Cheers,
John
- cferneyh - 08-10-2005
I thought it was great from beginning to end. I loved it and hope that Mav continues to be kind enough to treat us to such goodies. I, for one, appreciate the little insights he has brought us thus far and I simply can't understand why anyone would complain about it.
And I don't think there is anything such as "friendly criticism". Criticism is not friendly. That's almost as lame as "don't take this personally".
- Billy - 08-10-2005
cferneyh Wrote:And I don't think there is anything such as "friendly criticism". Criticism is not friendly. That's almost as lame as "don't take this personally".
My favorite is the ever-so-popular " :thumb: ".
You are a big, smelly jerk, and I think you're ugly...no offence... :thumb:
- MAverick - 08-10-2005
Problem Bear Wrote:Okay, speaking strictly of the video:
APPLAUSE:
Love the sound check. I've never heard Dire Wolf live. (A)
Cool, glad you liked it - I've never been to sound check before and it is the only chance I have to walk around on stage while they are playing. Never heard Dire Wolf Live either - that I remember
Problem Bear Wrote:Gord's discussion and performance of Springtime is the kind of stuff diehards kill for, and the kind of stuff that can get casual fans more interested. Kudos. (A+)
This is the meat of it and there will be more to come.
I need a better mic. for this type of stff - I'm working on it. Sort of hard though, hey Gord, will you put this LAv on for me while we hang out in your room . . . hmmm . . . not sure the best way to do this, dif. conditions call for dif. mic's. as well as environmental conditions and then I have to feel comfortable as does he. I think if he was wired then it wouldn't be so . . . natural ? Right word? . . . I am aware of these . . . difficiencies, but it was too good not to show . . . I thought. I am glad you loved it despite the bad audio.
Problem Bear Wrote:The jam footage was nice. ©
Getting a sneak peek at No Threat was super. (B+)
Nice? Have you EVER seen anything like that with this band? I get a C for too long? Never thought I'd get a c for too much music . . . hehe
Well, I got D's in school or less sometimes, so I'll take the C, but defiantly (in this particular case) . . .No Threat - the audio sucks, but it's all I have - take it or leave it - world premiere . . . waiting for somebody from a better angle or with a real recording to post it . . . still waiting . . . filming them live, as I have said before, is not what I am setting out to do. Being on stage isn't great for audio, has bad angles, but is a perspective that most people don't get to see.
I literally place my camera down and walk away to take pictures most of the time. The backstage stuff is what I am more interested in . . . personally. I'll leave it to others most of the time to post their videos . . .
Problem Bear Wrote:CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM:
The jam footage was too long for my tastes, especially since you couldn't skip ahead (or back) with whatever sort of media viewer that was. ©
I was going to cut it up into pieces, but decided against it - fair comment, though personally, I loved the jam. It was that long and I didn't want to just fade it out.
Was the c for the Jam or the fact you could skip ahead - I can't believe you wanted to skip that part . . .
Problem Bear Wrote:The text on the screen was really hokey (no offense, just giving my feedback). It was necessary during the Gord interview, but it was sort of silly when it said stuff like, "Paul's over here" or "We're in here." I was getting a Schoolhouse Rock vibe. Perhaps some find that charming. (D)
Fair enough, I sort of agree, and I probably won't do that again. But I got a D for two hoakie parts . . . c'mon Prof, that was worth a bit more . . . lol
Problem Bear Wrote:Seeing/hearing two songs that we've seen a million times before with camcorder sound and obtuse angles wasn't bad, exactly, but not particularly necessary either. ©
Have you ever seen Tim Mech on guitar? Just curious, I didn't get a chance to ask him if he's done that live before, but I thought it was kind of cool . . . personally. Maybe I haven't seen as many show as you, or listen to the music as much as you, which is probably true. Nor have I seen or heard any other recordings around of this show at all, so maybe I picked the wrong song. . . . what song would you have preferred?
I come at this from a perspective of a NEW(ish) fan, not a hardcore fan, so ya, I can see that, again, though, I don't have a problem with it - I think there are MORE people who are on my side of the fence than yours . . .
Problem Bear Wrote:Those are my two cents. Hope you take them in the friendly spirit they're intended. Keep up the fabulous work.
Cheers,
John
Love it all John!!!
Thanks a lot, been waiting for somebody to do that
Seriously, this is what I like to see. I love nothing better than CONSTRUCTIVE criticism . . . any time, I'll get better and you will see better stuff . . .
I've had problems with .flv players in the past and am working on a new one for site relaunch. I know it's an issue, but not I'm not too concerned about at the moment. I am working on it and will have solutions in the future.
So thanks again, I do appreciate. I think that other than the text in those twop parts, that I can live with all those comments. It seems there was something for all types of fans . . . old and new . . .or am I wrong . . .
MAv.
- MAverick - 08-10-2005
cferneyh Wrote:I thought it was great from beginning to end. I loved it and hope that Mav continues to be kind enough to treat us to such goodies. I, for one, appreciate the little insights he has brought us thus far and I simply can't understand why anyone would complain about it.
And I don't think there is anything such as "friendly criticism". Criticism is not friendly. That's almost as lame as "don't take this personally".
Well, I have to say, John insight was helpful in that it is in the right one and shows that if I can please him A+ all the way down to a D, then there is something for ALL types of fans, so it's pretty much right on the money in my books . . . but I don't need everybody to do this all the time.
lol
MAv.
- MAverick - 08-10-2005
rocketsan22 Wrote:I have better things to focus my energy on.
Cool. I think we all do.
MAv.
Re: Watching Maverick's video... - MAverick - 08-10-2005
rocketsan22 Wrote:Watching Maverick's video left an unsettling feeling with me, sort of a voyeuristic...discomfort that I get in those pron clips of people taking care of their own business.
I couldn't help but watch but felt like I shouldn't be there...in a hotel room with Gord Downie...at practice with the band...
Just curious to know what Maverick's relationship is with the band (aside from webmaster...) and what his history is with them...how long etc.
Thanks for The Pm Rocketsan22, I agree with everything you said in it and appreciate the kind words. Yes this board gets a little passionate sometimes. No hard feelings . . .
MAv.
xoxo
- Spycouple - 08-10-2005
note: looks like any squabbles between MAv and rocketsan22 have been worked out by PM, but I'd like to take the opportunity to defend both these characters!
okay...
While rocketsan22 justifiably got jumped on for the tone of his comments (or at least how they came across on the board), I think his major point of criticism is bang on.
This kinda gets art-theory-ish but there's a very valid argument here that both the cameraman and the editor (could be and often is the same person) bring a subjectivity to the work that is necessary for any media artifact. In fact, that's what makes it a "mediating artifact" (it exists somewhere between the author and the reader, or the perfomer and the audience as the case may be).
If I'm interpreting rocketsan22's argument correctly, his gripe is that it's incorrect for MAv to claim he's not part of what's going on with the work, i.e. that it's only the band or the song or the setting etc. that are relevant. Even if the media comes across as totally transparent, there's still an audience-performer relationship going on in the capture of the media and an editing decision after the fact. If MAv wants "transparency" with the clip with respect to his role, that's his aesthetic decision as a cameraman and filmmaker. If he achieves this effect of transparency, then that's his technical skill and artistic talent working well for him.
Essentially, MAv has a "voice" in this process just as much as the boys have voices with their musical instruments, or in the case of Gord D., with his actual voice and lyrics. The very fact that rocketsan22 associated the clip to MAv by calling it "MAv's video" indicates a unique voice - MAv as author - through what is really an exclusive role with the band. If there were a ton of cameras taking the same shots, it wouldn't be unique and it might not be all that interesting (as you could probably tune into it on Muchmusic). As more of this footage is released over time, I'm pretty sure that MAv's role will naturally seem more and more transparent, with the focus being on the content of the clip while MAv's role in authoring it becoming an assumption.
Maybe this kind of thing will be more and more understood as more and more people have access to digital cameras and editing software (at least those who can afford it), and I agree completely with MAv in wanting "transparency" with the work. Why? Because it can be really effective for the audience in many cases. Getting the "it's as if I'm right there with the person" effect is challenging and often difficult, as is creating a work that is presented entirely through a first person perspective. See filmmaker Errol Morris's "Fog of War" and the making of Aleksandr Sokurov's "Russian Ark" as an awesome examples (though aesthetically quite different from the everyday consumer-grade handheld camerawork).
Anyhow, a point was made that this discussion is a "non-issue", but I think that it's actually a fascinating issue, one which requires MAv to create the work, a forum to discuss it, and a shit disturber like rocketsan22 to raise some points for debate. nice! :thumb:
Great work MAv and great work rocketsan22: a gutsy piece of film and an even gustsier - though sometimes "uncomfortable" - thread to create (bloody shit disturber).
cheers,
jf
-edit- i incorrectly spelled "transparencey" earlier and quoted it to MAv. Sorry. All fixed now.
-edit2- and upon review it turns out that MAv didn't even use the word "transparency", just that he wanted to "be transparent", so I may as well correct that too. In fact, I'll just go with the "I'm paraphrasing" angle for the above quotes.
- MAverick - 08-10-2005
Spycouple Wrote:Great work MAv and great work rocketsan22: a gutsy piece of film and an even gustsier - though sometimes "uncomfortable" - thread to create (bloody shit disturber).
cheers,
jf
Fair enough. Well said. Point taken.
MAv.
- kelman66 - 08-10-2005
MAverick Wrote:Problem Bear Wrote:Okay, speaking strictly of the video:
Problem Bear Wrote:The text on the screen was really hokey (no offense, just giving my feedback). It was necessary during the Gord interview, but it was sort of silly when it said stuff like, "Paul's over here" or "We're in here." I was getting a Schoolhouse Rock vibe. Perhaps some find that charming. (D)
Fair enough, I sort of agree, and I probably won't do that again. But I got a D for two hoakie parts . . . c'mon Prof, that was worth a bit more . . . lol
MAv.
I kinda liked the text on the screen. It gave it a short-film-kinda-feel. And it definitely was good having subtitles in places. there were times i needed more actually.
As far as the long jam, I would rather have too much than not enough. As you pointed out, this is something we never get to see. Same with the on-stage filming. I thought that was awesome.
Your whole vid made me feel like I was there withyou and the band, on the inside. I feel closer to the band and hope they feel closer to us. I am so grateul that they want to share with us. Thank you so much.
As far as the 'poor' reviews, How can you hate wild? How can you hate huge?...
My rating A+