Do You Believe In God? - Printable Version
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- Lizard King - 03-21-2005
skippy the wonder dog Wrote:LizardKing51 Wrote:Some believe the universe is a product of blind chance, eg: big bang theory (and yes it is just a theory) or evolution by apes, which is laughable. But if this is so, why are humans conscious of God? Why would an accidental combination of various chemicals or evolution produce creatures with a spiritual need?
Purely out of curiousity, do you actually think that the idea that humans evolved from a primate ancestor is laughable? Or is it the notion that life itself could have arisen accidentally that you find laughable?
The apes, I worded that incorrectly, sorry!!
- LastStop - 03-21-2005
I am an atheist.
But then again, we are all atheists.
We all disbelieve in all or most of the thousands of gods that have ever been worshipped. Does a Christian believe in Zeus? No. I do not believe in the Christian god for the same reasons that a Christian does not believe in Zeus.
A Christian disbelieves in every other god that has ever been worshipped throughout history. A true atheist simply disbelieves in one more god than a Christian does.
- tragicallymike - 03-21-2005
Im catholic.
I dont go to church every weekend (far from it actually)
I believe in God.
I believe in Heaven.
actually this about sums it up:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
On The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
- Lizard King - 03-21-2005
tragicallymike Wrote:Im catholic.
I dont go to church every weekend (far from it actually)
.
yep your a catholic all right!
The Bible tells us how important gathering together is: Heb 10:24,25 says:
"And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near".
All these once a week sunday, go when we feel like it or when we feel guilty people are definitely not God's true worshippers. So why even bother going at all?
- tragicallymike - 03-21-2005
LizardKing51 Wrote:tragicallymike Wrote:Im catholic.
I dont go to church every weekend (far from it actually)
.
yep your a catholic all right!
The Bible tells us how important gathering together is: Heb 10:24,25 says:
"And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near".
All these once a week sunday, go when we feel like it or when we feel guilty people are definitely not God's true worshippers. So why even bother going at all?
Thats your opinion, I know how I personally feel about catholicism and I can say that I am a catholic. I dont feel like I have to go to church every weekend to be one of "God's true worshippers"
- gratts99 - 03-21-2005
if theres a heaven.. i dont think there would be a VIP room for "true worshippers" or any special treatments.
That would be like go®d coming down from the stage and asking tonyzzz that he couldnt sit so close because he doesnt listen to the hip everyday. He only listens every sunday. Isnt religion about believing, not about frequency?
- LoftyPines - 03-21-2005
Stephen Dame Wrote:skippy the wonder dog Wrote:Okay, before it does get ugly....
When you say Americans are "always" seen as more religious, do you mean down through the ages, or do you mean that they are universally seen as more religious in the present day?
I mean recently, as in Red State/Blue State "moral values" crusading America versus the cynical and more secular USA of the Nixon/Vietnam era.
And with history, as in when loyalists were fleeing the "Godless" revolutionaries (Some of that literature is beyond funny given the accepted history of the heroic American revolution) for a more deferential and God-fearing dominion of the North.
The piece deals with surveys and stuff like the CIA fact book which consider America more "church-going" and "religious," as subjective as those terms may be, while Canada is seen as a more "secular" and "liberal" society.
As I look further into it, it's apparent that "religious" and "secular" aren't always opposing terms... but "church going" seems to be passe here and all the rage there.
Typical "Fire and Ice" stuff I guess.
Just about to mention that book. It is an interesting read which shows, and proves quite well, the divergence of Canadian and American cultures.
- The Darkest Canuck - 03-21-2005
the truth is out there...
:mrgreen:
- Lizard King - 03-21-2005
gratts99 Wrote:if theres a heaven.. i dont think there would be a VIP room for "true worshippers" or any special treatments.
That would be like go®d coming down from the stage and asking tonyzzz that he couldnt sit so close because he doesnt listen to the hip everyday. He only listens every sunday. Isnt religion about believing, not about frequency?
hmmm interesting point, only problem I see with it is that you've assumed people (vip's or whomever) go to heaven when they die. Unfortunatley the scriptures disagree with that myth that all people go to heaven when they die, and bad people go to hell. I could go on and on about it but I'll sum it up in a few points:
1) If people go to heaven when they die, how come Jesus' friend Lazarus didnt when he died? He was subsequently resurrected by Jesus later, and Jesus also said that he "fell asleep in death" not that he was up in the clouds with wings on his back for eternity. (Read John chapter 11)
2) I also refer you to Psalms 37:11 and 37:29- "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (29)- The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside FOREVER upon it." How could this be so if everyone is up in heaven? Because it sure wont be the people here on earth right now. Only a small few..(Mat. 7:13,14)
3) If all who die go to heaven, then why did Jesus have to be resurrected? Wouldnt he have gone anyways?
4)The Bible states that when a person dies, "the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Does this mean that a spirit entity literally travels through space into God's presence? No, the way in which the Bible uses the word "returns" does not require an actual movement from one place to another. For instance, unfaithful Israelites were told: "'Return to me, and I will return to you,' God of armies has said." (Malachi 3:7) Israel's 'returning' to God meant a turning around from a wrong course and again conforming to God's righteous way. And God's 'returning' to Israel meant his turning favorable attention to his people once again. In both cases the "return" involved an attitude, not a literal displacement from one geographic location to another.
Similarly, at death no actual movement from the earth to the heavenly realm occurs when the spirit "returns" to God. Once the life-force is gone from a person, only God has the ability to restore it to him. So the spirit "returns to the true God" in the sense that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God.
Consider, what the Scriptures say about Jesus Christ's death. The Gospel writer Luke relates: "Jesus called with a loud voice and said: 'Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.' When he had said this, he expired." (Luke 23:46) As Jesus' spirit went out of him, he was not literally on his way to heaven. Jesus was not resurrected from the dead until the third day, and it was 40 days later that he ascended to heaven. (Acts 1:3, 9) At the time of his death, however, Jesus confidently left his spirit in his Father's hands, fully trusting in God's ability to bring him back to life.
5) The Bible also clearly states the condition of the dead in several places, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 says:
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. Or Eccl 3: 19,20..19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. Or Psalm 146:4..His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish
should I keep going??
- The Darkest Canuck - 03-21-2005
tragicallymike Wrote:LizardKing51 Wrote:tragicallymike Wrote:Im catholic.
I dont go to church every weekend (far from it actually)
.
yep your a catholic all right!
The Bible tells us how important gathering together is: Heb 10:24,25 says:
"And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near".
All these once a week sunday, go when we feel like it or when we feel guilty people are definitely not God's true worshippers. So why even bother going at all?
Thats your opinion, I know how I personally feel about catholicism and I can say that I am a catholic. I dont feel like I have to go to church every weekend to be one of "God's true worshippers"
lol, you're not very good at being Catholic then, because that's their whole thing, is obeying all the rules and then confessing when you break them, i should know, i was raised Catholic and served on the altar for 6-7 years or so. I eventually realized it just wasn't for me, too many contradictions and rules that don't make any sense to me. Now the only religion that really appeals to me at all is Native spirituality, i found it to be quite interesting when i studied it in World Religions last year, it's the only one out there that really makes any sense to me, but alas, i'm not Native, so i'm not really sure if i should look any further into it or not.
- gratts99 - 03-21-2005
LizardKing51 Wrote:gratts99 Wrote:if theres a heaven.. i dont think there would be a VIP room for "true worshippers" or any special treatments.
That would be like go®d coming down from the stage and asking tonyzzz that he couldnt sit so close because he doesnt listen to the hip everyday. He only listens every sunday. Isnt religion about believing, not about frequency?
hmmm interesting point, only problem I see with it is that you've assumed people (vip's or whomever) go to heaven when they die. Unfortunatley the scriptures disagree with that myth that all people go to heaven when they die, and bad people go to hell. I could go on and on about it but I'll sum it up in a few points:?
Ok i am assuming that both you and tragicallymike were going to heaven. And IF so i ask would you two be treated differently because you follow the rules more than he does?
And yes i am not assuming hes going to hell for being a sabres fan
- Lizard King - 03-21-2005
gratts99 Wrote:Well I already made the point about going to heaven, and Im not going to talk about myself or anyone else in that regard, Im not here to make personal attacks (and Im not implying that you were either). The point is more about attitude and faith, I believe and look out..that if Jesus was here and alive right now he would NOT be a Catholic, and he would definitely not have the same attitude toward congregating as mike does, thats for certain, you have to remember the admonitions Jesus gave at Matthew 22:37-"You must love God with your whole heart your whole soul and your whole mind" and John 3:17-"This means everlasting life their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ" It would be pretty hard to do these things and take in any kind of knowledge if your sitting at home or out playing basketball, or laying in bed hungover like a dog on Sunday, or whatever day..you see the point. Is that the attitude that God's true worshippers would have and expect everlasting life at the same time, not likely.LizardKing51 Wrote:gratts99 Wrote:if theres a heaven.. i dont think there would be a VIP room for "true worshippers" or any special treatments.
That would be like go®d coming down from the stage and asking tonyzzz that he couldnt sit so close because he doesnt listen to the hip everyday. He only listens every sunday. Isnt religion about believing, not about frequency?
hmmm interesting point, only problem I see with it is that you've assumed people (vip's or whomever) go to heaven when they die. Unfortunatley the scriptures disagree with that myth that all people go to heaven when they die, and bad people go to hell. I could go on and on about it but I'll sum it up in a few points:?
Ok i am assuming that both you and tragicallymike were going to heaven. And IF so i ask would you two be treated differently because you follow the rules more than he does?
And yes i am not assuming hes going to hell for being a sabres fan
And if there was a Hell Im sure all the Leaf fans would let a few sabres' fans in (I had to do it) :lol:
- tragicallymike - 03-21-2005
LizardKing51 Wrote:gratts99 Wrote:Well I already made the point about going to heaven, and Im not going to talk about myself or anyone else in that regard, Im not here to make personal attacks (and Im not implying that you were either). The point is more about attitude and faith, I believe and look out..that if Jesus was here and alive right now he would NOT be a Catholic, and he would definitely not have the same attitude toward congregating as mike does, thats for certain, you have to remember the admonitions Jesus gave at Matthew 22:37-"You must love God with your whole heart your whole soul and your whole mind" and John 3:17-"This means everlasting life their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ" It would be pretty hard to do these things and take in any kind of knowledge if your sitting at home or out playing basketball, or laying in bed hungover like a dog on Sunday, or whatever day..you see the point. Is that the attitude that God's true worshippers would have and expect everlasting life at the same time, not likely.LizardKing51 Wrote:gratts99 Wrote:if theres a heaven.. i dont think there would be a VIP room for "true worshippers" or any special treatments.
That would be like go®d coming down from the stage and asking tonyzzz that he couldnt sit so close because he doesnt listen to the hip everyday. He only listens every sunday. Isnt religion about believing, not about frequency?
hmmm interesting point, only problem I see with it is that you've assumed people (vip's or whomever) go to heaven when they die. Unfortunatley the scriptures disagree with that myth that all people go to heaven when they die, and bad people go to hell. I could go on and on about it but I'll sum it up in a few points:?
Ok i am assuming that both you and tragicallymike were going to heaven. And IF so i ask would you two be treated differently because you follow the rules more than he does?
And yes i am not assuming hes going to hell for being a sabres fan
And if there was a Hell Im sure all the Leaf fans would let a few sabres' fans in (I had to do it) :lol:
I think I find it hard to believe that when judgement day comes those who went to mass every weekend like I did for the first 18 years of my life are going to get the sweet "floor seats" if I can use that analogy. The relationship that I have with my God doesnt need to be proven by a monetary donation in the baskets on sunday. I try to make every decision in my life with my faith and morals in mind and thats how I know that I am a good catholic.
- j-monster - 03-22-2005
I was raised Catholic, as my mother is Catholic and my dad hasn't regularly attended church for some time.
I have drifted away and do not attend church regularly, much to my mother's chagrin. She is a very reasonable and loving person, so she doesn't hate me for not going, but she certainly wishes that I did go to church regularly (and is not above occasionally dropping a little Catholic guilt in there every now and then).
Despite my not attending church regularly (combination of disappointment in some aspects of the Catholic church and a lack of discipline/motivation to go every week), I still believe in God and I do think my belief in God guides me in my decision-making.
I do tend to disagree with people who believe that religion is inherently evil or wrong in some way... my feeling is that religion itself is morally pure, but it is the human beings representing or interpreting the religion that cause the problems, because as we all know human greed and self-interest sometimes pervert noble intentions.
That's pretty much all I have to say about that right now.
- direwolf74 - 03-22-2005
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:the truth is out there...
Best show EVER!
:thumb: