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The Weakest Link - Phantom Power Champion - Emperor Penguin - Printable Version

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Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - andrew sharpe - 12-05-2017

Good reply KWT.

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:On the other stuff, I note that you attribute all attempts to discern better and worse artistic creation as "ego," yet scorn the notion that privileging obscure cuts might also be a form of "ego."
No scorn intended! I'm fully willing to admit my preferences may be ego related (hence my beer example). However in this case you may need to dig for another reason that I don't actually just like the song better, as I would argue quite strongly that Escape is far from an obscure cut (as I pointed out, it's on Yer Favourites and was on regular setlist rotation). If I truly wanted to distinguish myself, even if it was subconsciously, I have to think I'd do a better job Smile

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:The consequences of this don't make sense; e.g., like many people here, I play some guitar on the side, but I'm a chunka-chunka-chunka primitive rhythm guitar player who is basically incompetent. If I decide that I am "as good" a guitarist as Rob B., or as "good" a singer as Gord D. - let alone Pavarotti - that don't make it so, and no one with the slightest taste or judgement would think it so.
No one could argue with this (though I bet you're a solid player despite your humbleness), however we can't know where the line is or who gets to draw it, so I don't. There isn't a measuring stick by which to compare Poets and Escape that doesn't rely on more opinion, so I do object to you stating yours as fact. Discussion, sure. After all, the poll is all about finding out which song everyone likes the most. But rejecting opinions based on assumed reasoning...huh?

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:I suspect your basic assumption is that unless something can be quantified (e.g., Bill Gates has more money than me) it cannot be subjected to meaningful assessments.
That's probably accurate. I do struggle with comparing things that can't be quantified.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - Killer Whale Tank - 12-05-2017

At risk of monopolizing this thread - my apologies - I thought I'd reciprocate by offering some thoughts on why 'Escape' doesn't seem worthy of the highest accolades, to my mind, and see what folks think about that.

The song deals with one of two scenarios. One: the narrator fails to understand that what he took as a casual invitation to friendship (or perhaps a romantic come-on) was actually a cry for help from an impending suicide. The other is that the narrator's interloctor is not in fact a suicide, just a musician who moves on after the gig, and so the miscommunication is simply a failure to take up an offer of friendship (or tryst) with sufficient urgency.

I find the effect of the former interpretation is somewhat compromised by the "and I chuckled" aside at the end of the second verse. A wry or rueful chuckle simply rings hollow as a response to a discovery that someone has committed suicide. (The breezily singing chambermaid also seems dissonant with the "suicide" scenario, considering that they found a suicide in that room not long before - although I can see the case defending it). The crafty but somewhat mundane lyric also lacks poetic imagination compared to its most obvious comparators in Downie's canon - e.g., songs like "Fiddler's Green" or even "Emperor Penguin;" sure, the "sagged wire" and "low moan" of the elevator are nice touches, the list of make-believe songs is mildly diverting (although I myself have no desire to hear a song with the drearily abstract title of "All Desires Turn Concrete"), but we're nowhere close to the stunning imagery of "Fiddler's" or the breathtakingly unexpected metaphors and wry wit of "Penguin." Nothing wrong with repetitive chorsues, but again, "guess I'm too slow" doesn't really do much more than serviceably set up the final couplet. And it doesn't help that (a) the "misheard cry for help from a suicide" is a less universal experience than themes like family or premature death per se and (b) the lyric further separates listener from narrator by self-referentially talking about the life of performing musicians; writers writing about writing and being writers is notorious terrain. Put all of these considerations together and you get a well-crafted but not top-shelf composition.

Now as for the second, "friendship missed" scenario: that amounts to a minor moment, nicely portrayed. But a "minor moment, nicely portrayed" naturally tends to solicit a less powerful emotion response - that is, it's a minor song almost by definition. "Gord meets X, Gord fails to really strike up a deep relationship with X, Gord figures this out and chuckles ruefully." Well, great, but only a couple of steps up from missing the bus, y'know.

As for music, I don't care for long drawn-out intros (or conclusions) myself, and I know some folks love Rob B's spacey notes on this one, but I like my songs tighter and less "studio." This definitely brings us closer to those "arbitrary personal preferences," though, so I won't push that, any more than I insisted upon my own indifference to the drawn out coda to "Gift Shop." Give me the taut, slinky groove of "Poets" or the universality and demented poetry of "Penguin" any day.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - andrew sharpe - 12-05-2017

So most of your critique is directed at the lyrics, and I have to say, the strength of this song is less the lyrics but more the weaving of lyric with rhythm. GS and JF are the stars here. The running bassline, combined with Johnny's timely rolls, is hypnotic...almost trance like. I love how GS fingers the bass on this one, instead of strumming or even plucking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9d4_PG8I_Q, setting a firm foundation for Robby to paint over top. He's at his best when he's noodling in and around the song, as opposed to driving the riff. Paul's contribution is what it always is, you don't notice him until he's not playing, and then you see his part is essential.

It's a sentimental, quiet rhythm, with crescendos and falls, as is the story that GD weaves into it. A fairly mundane relationship...idle chit chat...until it's gone, and then it's something. The relationship centered around music, so Gord uses fictional songs (meant to drive the story...if they sounded like actual song titles then they would be less set apart as narrative) to tell the story. I really do love the image of the chamber maid humming while cleaning up, with birds swinging on the wires outside the window. Like, a terrible thing happened, but life goes on.

Should Gord have gone to visit the guy earlier? Would it have mattered? The guy clearly gave Gord no consideration. Terrible things are happening at the same time as the mundane and ordinary. Life is complicated...but the room will get cleaned up, and someone else will sing a new song.

I love this song even more now that Gord is gone. Those melodies come back to me, Time beyond our heartbeat.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - direwolf74 - 12-05-2017

andrew sharpe Wrote:So most of your critique is directed at the lyrics, and I have to say, the strength of this song is less the lyrics but more the weaving of lyric with rhythm. GS and JF are the stars here. The running bassline, combined with Johnny's timely rolls, is hypnotic...almost trance like. I love how GS fingers the bass on this one, instead of strumming or even plucking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9d4_PG8I_Q, setting a firm foundation for Robby to paint over top. He's at his best when he's noodling in and around the song, as opposed to driving the riff. Paul's contribution is what it always is, you don't notice him until he's not playing, and then you see his part is essential.

It's a sentimental, quiet rhythm, with crescendos and falls, as is the story that GD weaves into it. A fairly mundane relationship...idle chit chat...until it's gone, and then it's something. The relationship centered around music, so Gord uses fictional songs (meant to drive the story...if they sounded like actual song titles then they would be less set apart as narrative) to tell the story. I really do love the image of the chamber maid humming while cleaning up, with birds swinging on the wires outside the window. Like, a terrible thing happened, but life goes on.

Should Gord have gone to visit the guy earlier? Would it have mattered? The guy clearly gave Gord no consideration. Terrible things are happening at the same time as the mundane and ordinary. Life is complicated...but the room will get cleaned up, and someone else will sing a new song.

I love this song even more now that Gord is gone. Those melodies come back to me, Time beyond our heartbeat.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Your post perfectly sums up the way I feel about this song. Bravo sir!

:thumb:

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - SRK - 12-05-2017

Escape is at hand is about a suicide??? Did gord ever say that, or that just someone's interpretation? I always took it as how killerwhaletank says above: "The other is that the narrator's interloctor is not in fact a suicide, just a musician who moves on after the gig, and so the miscommunication is simply a failure to take up an offer of friendship (or tryst) with sufficient urgency."

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - andrew sharpe - 12-05-2017

I don't think Gord's songs are ever intended to be about one thing, but the inspiration for the song was a suicide, yes http://www.hipmuseum.com/escape.html.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - knightrider - 12-05-2017

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:Now as for the second, "friendship missed" scenario: that amounts to a minor moment, nicely portrayed. But a "minor moment, nicely portrayed" naturally tends to solicit a less powerful emotion response - that is, it's a minor song almost by definition. "Gord meets X, Gord fails to really strike up a deep relationship with X, Gord figures this out and chuckles ruefully." Well, great, but only a couple of steps up from missing the bus, y'know.
My interpretation has always been something of a combination of the 2 scenarios you describe KWT: missed friendship opportunity that was initially merely regrettable (and I chuckled), but became irreversible and deeply saddening after learning of the missed friend's suicide shortly thereafter and realizing I was too slow both that night/morning and as a life metaphor (which requires knowledge of the backstory to appreciate).

For me, this evokes a pretty powerful emotional connection to the (based on a true) story, beautifully woven into a subtly cool trippy slowly building rocker of a Hip song and a dripping wet/weird Gordie chorus that I have belted out at shows and in my car many times, more recently through blurry wet eyes ("you said ANY-time...!") FWIW. It's a personal favorite for the desert island mix. Sorry Poets, you've grown on me over the years (yes loach), but you're not on my island mix and I also don't give a shit what the poets are doing. Damn I thought we were just voting for the silly pop/rock tune we liked best! Guess I'm too slow. :lol:

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - andrew sharpe - 12-05-2017

Interesting to note that the lyrics online are "She sang, They Checked Out An Hour Ago, and chuckled", so, if that's right, it's the chambermaid chuckling, not the narrator. And she would chuckle, as she's being clever by quoting a song lyric in response to the narrator asking about his friend. It does sound like Gord singing "I chuckled", which I took to be the narrator chuckling at hearing the maid singing his friend's song. I never took the hotel to be the site of the suicide. Ellison killed himself in his garage, though it's possible Gord fictionalized the suicide for this song and was implying it happened at the hotel.

I also love the "number scheme" running through the song. 3rd & 4th time in NY, 5th & 6th on the bill, 7th floor (or live, the 704, a highway?). Not that it's THAT clever, but it just fits the song well.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - senrab - 12-06-2017

andrew sharpe Wrote:I love this song even more now that Gord is gone. Those melodies come back to me, Time beyond our heartbeat.

Totally agree with your sentiment. I thought of the same line when the news came out that he had passed away.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power Champion - Emperor Peng - robbroncs - 12-08-2017

I want a recount Cry

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power - Championship Round - robbroncs - 12-08-2017

andrew sharpe Wrote:I don't think Gord's songs are ever intended to be about one thing, but the inspiration for the song was a suicide, yes http://www.hipmuseum.com/escape.html.

out of all of the Hipmen. any time i read a quote from Rob, I instantly read it with his deep voice in my head. i do this with him more than Gord even....

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power Champion - Emperor Peng - sean.bonner - 12-08-2017

This almost makes up for Emperor Penguin's defeat in The Hip 64.

...almost.

Re: The Weakest Link - Phantom Power Champion - Emperor Peng - Dave's Delta - 12-10-2017

Wow. Interesting discussion. Very deep.

Not sure I’m worthy enough to post a response.

Except to say what might be weak for me today, might be top 3 tomorrow. I can’t explain it.