"Baseball and w/e-else TDC wants to talk about" - Printable Version
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- Spycouple - 11-22-2006
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:that being said, Ortiz didn't deserve the award over A-Rod last year, no matter how much you guys hate A-Rod, Ortiz' game is one-dimensional, and while the measurements and contributions of that demension are very impressive, the fact that he doesn't really do much defensively huirts him in the voting every year IMO...
It's just that Ortiz' one dimension is coming up with HUGE hits when he's got the team on his back. At the trade deadline (i.e. before the Sox tanked wickehd haaahd), Ortiz was the front runner and I doubt Jeter would've beat him if both Sox and Yankees had made the playoffs. The "Well, Don Baylor won an MVP as a DH" argument would've come into play.
Full credit for Jeter's big-time hits, I can't stand him as a Yankee, but get uneasy when he is up to bat against the Sox, regardless of the inning or score etc. With Ortiz, you start looking at how many guys need to get on base in order to have Papi at the plate for a bit at-bat. That doesn't happen so much with Jeter i don't think.
For me, the Jeter vs. Ortiz comparison comes down to Ortiz getting the BIG HITS that finish off a team while Jeter's the guy you look back on as the guy who'd get a rally started in the first place. But the Yankees line up is so loaded that it's hard to single him out. That's why I kind of shocked that Mauer and Morneau didn't end up splitting the vote to the point where Jeter wouldactually win it
- The Darkest Canuck - 11-22-2006
Jeter can hit the homer to finish off a team too though, or deliver a hit to get the rally started, or keep it going, or steal a base to get into scoring position when you just need one run to tie the game, or make a spectacular defensive play to hold the score...which makes him a better player IMO, and more valuable to his team...
that being said, so can Morneau, so i think he was a great choice for MVP.
- tigerthelion - 11-24-2006
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:Jeter can hit the homer to finish off a team too though, or deliver a hit to get the rally started, or keep it going, or steal a base to get into scoring position when you just need one run to tie the game, or make a spectacular defensive play to hold the score...which makes him a better player IMO, and more valuable to his team...
that being said, so can Morneau, so i think he was a great choice for MVP.
I can't recall the last time Jeter made a spectacular defensive play. I know every third play he makes is considered spectacular by the commentators but that's because commentators are cheerleaders.
- cferneyh - 11-24-2006
tigerthelion Wrote:The Darkest Canuck Wrote:Jeter can hit the homer to finish off a team too though, or deliver a hit to get the rally started, or keep it going, or steal a base to get into scoring position when you just need one run to tie the game, or make a spectacular defensive play to hold the score...which makes him a better player IMO, and more valuable to his team...
that being said, so can Morneau, so i think he was a great choice for MVP.
I can't recall the last time Jeter made a spectacular defensive play. I know every third play he makes is considered spectacular by the commentators but that's because commentators are cheerleaders.
Good call Tiger. Every year I buy Baseball Prospectus and every year they mention that by every objective defensive stat out there, Jeter is a less-than-average defensive shortstop. Typically this comes down to number of putouts per game and Jeter's stats versus his backup, and Jeter's backup always has higher numbers indicating that Jeter simply doesn't get to as many balls as his backup, let alone the league average.
I find it funny for a guy that is such a "leader", he won't acknowledge that he's the 2nd best starting shortstop on his own team, given that Pay-Fraud was always better than him defensively (and offensively).
- The Darkest Canuck - 11-24-2006
you guys are Nazis when it comes to the Yankees, and fools to constantly be on an everlasting witchunt against anyone in the pinstripes...
- cferneyh - 11-24-2006
Hey man, don't shoot the messenger......
- The Darkest Canuck - 11-25-2006
any team in the league would have Jeter as their starting SS if they could, I bet even the Cardinals would trade Eckstein in a heartbeat to get Jeter...
- tigerthelion - 11-25-2006
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:any team in the league would have Jeter as their starting SS if they could, I bet even the Cardinals would trade Eckstein in a heartbeat to get Jeter...
Uh, of course they would. What kind of a comparison is that? Eckstein is probably about the 20 best SS in baseball. At least compare Jeter to someone like Tejada.
- The Darkest Canuck - 11-25-2006
Eckstein just won MVP of the WS...
- tigerthelion - 11-26-2006
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:Eckstein just won MVP of the WS...
So. That doesn't mean that he's a superstar. It just means he got a few hits in the WS. That was a pathetically crappy WS btw. Horrible baseball.
Scott Brosius also won the WS MVP trophy at one time. Brosius had a good string of hits at the right time. That doesn't change the fact that Brosius was a terrible player.
Look at some other WS MVP winners and tell me average to above average players can't win it.
Jose Rijo, Pat Borders, Livan Hernandez, Troy Glaus.....
- The Darkest Canuck - 11-26-2006
Borders is an awesome ball player, and so is Eckstein...
- tigerthelion - 11-26-2006
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:Borders is an awesome ball player, and so is Eckstein...
No and no. :thumb:
Eckstein doesn't have much range at SS and has one of the weakest arms in the history of the position. Hitting bloop singles all year without contributing RBIs, SBs, or any power at all isn't the formula to be a "great" ball player.
As for Borders, he was alright but not great by any stretch. For one thing, he wasn't good defensively. He was a decent hitter though.
- cferneyh - 11-27-2006
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:Borders is an awesome ball player
:lol:
Well NOW I understand why you think Jeter is the best player of his era.
What was it that made Borders an awesome ball player? Was it the career .253 batting average? Or the .288 career on base percentage?
:lol:
- The Darkest Canuck - 11-27-2006
you only wish your favourite team had a player the caliber of Jeter...
- beevo's voice - 11-27-2006
Jeter is a very good consistent ball player. There are definately shortstops just as good or even better than him. Reyes, Tejada, Rollins, Guillen, Young-- all had years just as good as Jeter but do not get the attention Jeter gets.