emperor penguin Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:God help us all if StephanIe Dion is elected the leader of the Liberals. Celine Dion would be just as good of a choice.
Really? whats wrong with Dion, I think he'll be a good leader
Well, for one he can hardly speak english.
cratch: I thought Canada was a nation of more than French speaking leaders.
if Chretien got by with his "English", Dion should do ok, haha...
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:if Chretien got by with his "English", Dion should do ok, haha...
Yeah, but Chretien didn't really get by with his "English"; it was awful. Canada is a weird country. Our head of state (Gov General) is from Haiti and we can't seem to get PM's (other than Harper) who aren't French.
Well, Chretien couldn't get by on his French, either.
I'm not terribly thrilled with Dion. But, I'm not a Liberal, so it wasn't my choice anyway. I was looking for a Liberal leader that would be able to beat Harper in the next election. I'm not all that confident about Dion.
Do you all remember the sponsorship scandal? It wasn't that long ago, you all must remember it?!
The Liberals poured millions and millions of our hard earned money into Quebec to shut them up about seperation...millions! And, if you were to ask most of them, they believe it was worth it.
Now, fast forward, to the new Stephen Harper era (which, by the way, we should've had a prime minister like this many many years ago). All he had to do was give the Quebecois a little bit of respect and acknoledgement in the House of Commons. No fancy cars for large corporate heads... No free advertisement budgets at the cost of Canadians... No corporate boxes in the Bell Centre...etc. etc.
I live fairly close (20 minutes) from the Quebec border. I can say without a doubt, they are culturally different in every form. I have no problem recognizing that. How could you have a problem with that?
Harper did 2 things here. He may have gotten the votes he needed out of Quebec, and he put the ambitions of the seperatist party to rest for the time being.
I think everybody in Canada already recognized that Quebec was culturally different; in fact, I think we heard too much about how they are different. I can't see how this will put the ambitions of the Bloc to rest for any time being, except for now of course, because Parliament is out for the next few months.
If anything, it grants them some House endorsed leverage, and the potential problems that come out of this mess are far worse then any benefits that it may have produced.
As for Dion, I think it was a good choice. True, his fluency in English leaves a little to be desired, but there is certainly nothing stopping him from developing his English, and doing so rather quickly. I think the Liberals were wise in choosing Dion; it will bring the perception of the party a little bit back to the left from where Martin left them, where as Ignatieff would have brought them a little too close to the right, which is dangerous territory for the Liberals. I can see Dion helping to steal some NDP votes, and maybe reclaiming some lost Liberal seats. I honestly can't see how Dion will hurt the Liberal party in the impending election.
Either way, I'm still sure that we have a few more Minority governments in the works.
The thing with Dion is, contrary to western beleif, he isn't about to rally the Quebec vote just because he's a franco. Almost all other QC based ex liberals (ministers included) were supporting Ignatieff, not Dion. Dion isn't popular in Quebec at all, even among liberals. His image lacks charisma, but he got some points for leading last year's summit on environment.
Fact remains his track record in Quebec (not recognizing fiscal imbalance, not supporting the "nation" whatever that was worth - doesn't make him popular at all.
Which is fine if the liberals write off Quebec to the bloc anyway and concentrate on the rest of the country, but many QC liberals were dissappointed yesterday.
The fact of the matter is that opinion polling had Canada's New Government, under Maximum Leader Stephen Harper, running neck and neck with the Liberals before the Liberals even got around to electing a leader and having, you know, some actual policies.
Harper's opponent in the last election was a scandal-plagued windsock less charismatic than an infected toenail, who seemed to have no policies at all and who ran the most incompetent election campaign in human memory. And against Martin, the Harper juggernaut won the weakest minority government in the history of Canadian politics.
Stephen Harper is a placeholder. Anyone who thinks he'll win another term, much less a majority, is delusional.
skippy, remotely Wrote:The fact of the matter is that opinion polling had Canada's New Government, under Maximum Leader Stephen Harper, running neck and neck with the Liberals before the Liberals even got around to electing a leader and having, you know, some actual policies.
Harper's opponent in the last election was a scandal-plagued windsock less charismatic than an infected toenail, who seemed to have no policies at all and who ran the most incompetent election campaign in human memory. And against Martin, the Harper juggernaut won the weakest minority government in the history of Canadian politics.
Stephen Harper is a placeholder. Anyone who thinks he'll win another term, much less a majority, is delusional.
Couldn't agree more.
:thumb:
skippy, remotely Wrote:The fact of the matter is that opinion polling had Canada's New Government, under Maximum Leader Stephen Harper, running neck and neck with the Liberals before the Liberals even got around to electing a leader and having, you know, some actual policies.
Harper's opponent in the last election was a scandal-plagued windsock less charismatic than an infected toenail, who seemed to have no policies at all and who ran the most incompetent election campaign in human memory. And against Martin, the Harper juggernaut won the weakest minority government in the history of Canadian politics.
Stephen Harper is a placeholder. Anyone who thinks he'll win another term, much less a majority, is delusional.
Couldn't disagree more.
I'm not big on politics, but I'm upset that Jim Dinning didn't win the leadership for the PC party in Alberta. That's really it haha.
Andre Cardinal Wrote:Do you all remember the sponsorship scandal? It wasn't that long ago, you all must remember it?!
The Liberals poured millions and millions of our hard earned money into Quebec to shut them up about seperation...millions! And, if you were to ask most of them, they believe it was worth it.
Now, fast forward, to the new Stephen Harper era (which, by the way, we should've had a prime minister like this many many years ago). All he had to do was give the Quebecois a little bit of respect and acknoledgement in the House of Commons. No fancy cars for large corporate heads... No free advertisement budgets at the cost of Canadians... No corporate boxes in the Bell Centre...etc. etc.
I live fairly close (20 minutes) from the Quebec border. I can say without a doubt, they are culturally different in every form. I have no problem recognizing that. How could you have a problem with that?
Harper did 2 things here. He may have gotten the votes he needed out of Quebec, and he put the ambitions of the seperatist party to rest for the time being.
The fact remains that the province (yes,
province) of Québec is under the impression they
require this respect and acknowledgment that goes above and beyond anything else any other province is getting. I don't think anyone here is failing to recognize the social and cultural differences of Québec, but I think some people are failing to recognize the fact that each province meets the same criteria. The only difference is, these other provinces don't get their panties in a twist and threaten to seperate everytime something doesn't go their way.
We, as a country, shouldn't feel obligated to spend money on a province to "shut them up" about seperation. We also shouldn't feel obligated to give them special treatment for the same reasons. What a foolish way of thinking. You know how children will throw fits until they get their way? And how if the parents give in to this behaviour, the child expects the same action/reaction scenerio each and every time? How are not setting ourselves up for this?
If all of this animosity boils down to a war thatwas fought and lost before Canada was even a country, then I think it's time to cut our ties with history. I think a lot of it has to do with this notion that the rest of Canada hates Québec. If anything, we're probably all just sick and tired of hearing about this seperation crap every 5-10 years. It just seems like it will never go away.
How much longer can this drag out? Until Québec is happy? Do they even know what would make them "happy"? I mean, they still lost the war if that's what's so upsetting. No "Nation of their own" is going to change history.
IMO, you can't compare provinces to children under "canada government parents", the analogy isn't valid. It's exactly what annoys people in Quebec: the "Canada knows best" or "Ottawa knows best" assumption is a bit condescending and annoying.
Also, no one ever said other provinces can't claim the same things Quebec does. No one in Qc will be offended if all provinces get what Quebec gets. Let's all separate from Canada! Form the Canadian Union or something (like EU). Everyone will be happy. I guess what I'm suggesting is more power to all provinces, but of course there's not a politician in Ottawa that will support that when it's their jobs and power that are at stake...
Matchek Wrote:Also, no one ever said other provinces can't claim the same things Quebec does. No one in Qc will be offended if all provinces get what Quebec gets. Let's all separate from Canada! Form the Canadian Union or something (like EU). Everyone will be happy. I guess what I'm suggesting is more power to all provinces, but of course there's not a politician in Ottawa that will support that when it's their jobs and power that are at stake...
Wouldn't it just be easier to grant more provincal power to each province instead of going through all this trouble of creating a Canadian Union? (Yes, I realize that's what you were suggesting). Why is it that no other province feels inclined to seperate? Do you think Québec is constantly getting the shaft from the government in Ottawa? Not enough funding? Not enough power? Not enough French signage? What is it?
Furthermore, if each province was instilled in greater reign over themselves, what matters would remain national? If Canada (or sorry, the "Canadian Union") sends troops off to war, does Québec have the option of not supporting that movement? What is there to gain from seperation? Honestly, what power are you under the impression you'll get if you should detach yourself from the rest of the Canada?
Matchek Wrote:IMO, you can't compare provinces to children under "canada government parents", the analogy isn't valid. It's exactly what annoys people in Quebec: the "Canada knows best" or "Ottawa knows best" assumption is a bit condescending and annoying.
Also, no one ever said other provinces can't claim the same things Quebec does. No one in Qc will be offended if all provinces get what Quebec gets. Let's all separate from Canada! Form the Canadian Union or something (like EU). Everyone will be happy. I guess what I'm suggesting is more power to all provinces, but of course there's not a politician in Ottawa that will support that when it's their jobs and power that are at stake...
I, for one, wouldn't be happy. Sure it has some faults, but I still believe this is the best country in the world, and I've yet to hear any convincing argument as to why we should break it up. And to second Bosman's comments, what exactly is it that you think would be better if you were independent?
The EU comparison isn't really a good one because they're going the other way - a group of previously independent nations that are gradually giving more and more power to a central government.
As for the Stephan Dion topic, I don't get why the media has been spinning this as being good news for the conservatives. Dion appears to want to make the environment the big issue in the next election, and if he's successful bringing that to the forefront of the voters' minds, the conservatives don't stand a chance.