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If you don't want the responsibility of a child, might I suggest abstenance, using a condem, or perhaps a vasectomy?

Father's Rights? Men Want Right To Turn Down Fatherhood
Group Wants Same Rights As Women

POSTED: 7:46 am EST March 9, 2006

NEW YORK -- Contending that women have more options than they do in the event of an unintended pregnancy, men's rights activists are mounting a long shot legal campaign aimed at giving them the chance to opt out of financial responsibility for raising a child.

The National Center for Men has prepared a lawsuit -- nicknamed Roe v. Wade for Men -- to be filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of a 25-year-old computer programmer ordered to pay child support for his ex-girlfriend's daughter. The suit addresses the issue of male reproductive rights, contending that lack of such rights violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause.

The gist of the argument: If a pregnant woman can choose among abortion, adoption or raising a child, a man involved in an unintended pregnancy should have the choice of declining the financial responsibilities of fatherhood. The activists involved hope to spark discussion even if they lose.

"There's such a spectrum of choice that women have -- it's her body, her pregnancy and she has the ultimate right to make decisions," said Mel Feit, director of the men's center. "I'm trying to find a way for a man also to have some say over decisions that affect his life profoundly."

Feit's organization has been trying since the early 1990s to pursue such a lawsuit, and finally found a suitable plaintiff in Matt Dubay of Saginaw, Mich.

Dubay says he has been ordered to pay $500 a month in child support for a girl born last year to his ex-girlfriend. He contends that the woman knew he didn't want to have a child with her and assured him repeatedly that -- because of a physical condition -- she could not get pregnant.

Dubay is braced for the lawsuit to fail.

"What I expect to hear (from the court) is that the way things are is not really fair, but that's the way it is," he said in a telephone interview. "Just to create awareness would be enough, to at least get a debate started."

State courts have ruled in the past that any inequity experienced by men like Dubay is outweighed by society's interest in ensuring that children get financial support from two parents. Melanie Jacobs, a Michigan State University law professor, said the federal court might rule similarly in Dubay's case.

"The courts are trying to say it may not be so fair that this gentleman has to support a child he didn't want, but it's less fair to say society has to pay the support," she said.

Feit, however, says a fatherhood opt-out wouldn't necessarily impose higher costs on society or the mother. A woman who balked at abortion but felt she couldn't afford to raise a child could put the baby up for adoption, he said.

Jennifer Brown of the women's rights advocacy group Legal Momentum objected to the men's center comparing Dubay's lawsuit to Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a woman's right to have an abortion.

"Roe is based on an extreme intrusion by the government -- literally to force a woman to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want," Brown said. "There's nothing equivalent for men. They have the same ability as women to use contraception, to get sterilized."

Feit counters that the suit's reference to abortion rights is apt.

"Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences," he said. "No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say."

"The problem is this is so politically incorrect," Feit added. "The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility."

Feit doesn't advocate an unlimited fatherhood opt-out; he proposes a brief period in which a man, after learning of an unintended pregnancy, could decline parental responsibilities if the relationship was one in which neither partner had desired a child.

"If the woman changes her mind and wants the child, she should be responsible," Feit said. "If she can't take care of the child, adoption is a good alternative."

The president of the National Organization for Women, Kim Gandy, acknowledged that disputes over unintended pregnancies can be complex and bitter.

"None of these are easy questions," said Gandy, a former prosecutor. "But most courts say it's not about what he did or didn't do or what she did or didn't do. It's about the rights of the child."
Oi vey.

Yet another move in society toward viewing children as inconveniences rather than precious gifts.
Group Wants Same Rights As Women


:lol:

Does this mean they get PMS, saggy boobies, nursing babies, stretch marks, 75c to each $1 each paycheck, debate with themselves if - actually they should get a boob job...a wax job (yeah..way up **there**)
and we can now have Brad Pitt plastered have naked all over the place, and expect every man to look like that after a three night Hip run???!!!

This is awesome!!!

:jump :jump :jump
AndGraceToo Wrote:saggy boobies

That's the funniest thing I've read all day.
KittieKatFish Wrote:If you don't want the responsibility of a child, might I suggest abstenance, using a condem, or perhaps a vasectomy?

You know, this is a pretty goofy complaint ... but that's the same counterargument the pro-lifers use against women.

Except for the vasectomy part, of course.
While it would be nearly, if not completely impossible to prove in court, the plaintiff's point here is that the female allegedly convinced him that she neither wanted nor was she capable of having children. Those types of lies can, and I 'm sure have, been told by many males and many females over the years.

I'm not siding with either argument, but there is clear inconsistency in how paternity and child support is handled in the American judicial system.

All a woman has to do is name a father and the guy named is held financially responsible but the court. There have been several instances where months or even years after the fact men have proved with DNA that the child shares no biology with the person named as "father" yet the laws are such that the response is literally "too bad, so sad" and the men have to continue to pay for a child born out of promiscuity.

I agree, it's about child welfare but is a child better off with a "father" that's only the "father" because some woman says he is and the court believes her without question or proof?

I'm jus' sayin'...
fingernailsonhull Wrote:Oi vey.

Yet another move in society toward viewing children as inconveniences rather than precious gifts.

Mine are both, where does that put me?

On a slightly similar vein, there has been a case in the European court of Human Rights where a woman who had embryos frozen before cancer treatment which made her sterile has lost the right to have a child as the 'father' who she has now split from has changed his mind...

Possibly the right to opt out would be beneficial to him...

D
Detrious Wrote:
fingernailsonhull Wrote:Oi vey.

Yet another move in society toward viewing children as inconveniences rather than precious gifts.

Mine are both, where does that put me?

On a slightly similar vein, there has been a case in the European court of Human Rights where a woman who had embryos frozen before cancer treatment which made her sterile has lost the right to have a child as the 'father' who she has now split from has changed his mind...

Possibly the right to opt out would be beneficial to him...

D

I'm assuming the embryos were not fertilized before being frozen, so where does this give the woman the right to have children with the father if he changes his mind after her cancer treatments are over?

With regards to the paternity issue, don't most courts now require a blood test to prove who the father is? In most cases, I would agree that preventing fathers from opting out of financial support of the child is a good thing but in cases where the father can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the woman misled him about her ability to have children would get him off the hook. For example, if a woman tells her boyfriend that she is sterile or physically unable to have kids, but her medical records say otherwise, then I would argue she misled him.
The eggs were fertilised in 2001 after she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. She was engaged to the father at the time, and they had been planning a future together.
In 2002 he wrote to the clinic holding them asking for hem to be destroyed as they had split up, and as she is now sterile due to the cancer treatment, she will be unable to have children of her 'own'.

Now imho, as the eggs have already been fertilised by the former partner, then the spark has been made, and this is more a freedom to choose similar (although a bit more complicated) to abortion.

As I look through the news coverage there is little from the 'father' on his reasons, but I know I personally wouldn't be able to say no and destroy a woman's(, who I had supposedly once careed about enough to have children with,) right to have her children.

Kids are brought up out of relationships either by divorce, accidents, beer, so I guess I just feel bad for the girl.

D
(never claiming to be an expert)