Wasted far too much time in Toronto with some buddies this weekend putting together All-Time teams for a video game tournament. The guy with the Habs killed us all very, very dead.
But an interesting argument arose that I thought might interest some of the Leafs fans (...ha!...sorry.) we have on this here site.
Do Mats and Darryl belong on the All Time Leafs Team? I voted no, I figure you should have to have at least one ring.
Because I believe every generation of NHLers is better than the previous generation, I'd say yes. Sittler can't help the fact that the team was owned by a senile old man, and Sundin can't help the fact that he's forced to play with guys like Jonas Hoglund or 80 year olds like Steve Thomas and Gary Roberts. Hell, Sundin is probably the most skilled Leaf ever.
If you criteria is "at least one ring", what does your All Time Sens team look like? An empty dressing room with crickets chirping? :lol:
cferneyh Wrote:Because I believe every generation of NHLers is better than the previous generation, I'd say yes. Sittler can't help the fact that the team was owned by a senile old man, and Sundin can't help the fact that he's forced to play with guys like Jonas Hoglund or 80 year olds like Steve Thomas and Gary Roberts. Hell, Sundin is probably the most skilled Leaf ever.
If you criteria is "at least one ring", what does your All Time Sens team look like? An empty dressing room with crickets chirping? :lol:
Yeah, maybe there's a tumbleweed or two blowing through, too. :lol: :lol:
Anyway, you have to look at what the players have contributed to the team, and other circumstances as well. Sittler and Sundin were/are great players who were/are not surrounded with enough talent to help the team win a Cup. Both players have delivered in the playoffs for the Leafs and have done as much as they could to lead them close to a Cup win, so for that reason they would both deserve to be on an all-time Leaf team, as would Doug Gilmour, IMO.
cferneyh Wrote:If you criteria is "at least one ring", what does your All Time Sens team look like? An empty dressing room with crickets chirping? :lol:
The Sens won a few Cups in their early incarnation...
I can't attest to how Sittler played as I've never seen him live or on the telly for that matter, however given the numbers he put up for the buds and the impact that he made on a downright crappy team he's gotta be there....and as far as Sundin goes, no All-time greatest Maple Leaf team is complete without Mats Sundin in the lineup, he is one of the greatest captains that have ever played for Toronto...easily my favourite player in the NHL...btw what's an NHL???
Goulet!!!
robert goulet Wrote:...and as far as Sundin goes, no All-time greatest Maple Leaf team is complete without Mats Sundin in the lineup, he is one of the greatest captains that have ever played for Toronto...
IMO, Sundin is a terrible captain. A great player, but a lousy leader! The Leafs will never win a Cup with him as their captain.
Sittler is IMO the best leaf ever, you have to include him on the all time team. todays the anniversary of his 10 point night i'm pretty sure.
tommygunn Wrote:robert goulet Wrote:...and as far as Sundin goes, no All-time greatest Maple Leaf team is complete without Mats Sundin in the lineup, he is one of the greatest captains that have ever played for Toronto...
IMO, Sundin is a terrible captain. A great player, but a lousy leader! The Leafs will never win a Cup with him as their captain.
IMO, fans have no idea who is and who isn't a great leader. Only the players on the team know. I remember when the Wings were perennial chokers and everyone said Yzerman was a crappy captain, and now HE'S THE MAN. Everyone said Dougie was a great captain, but the Leafs never won a single playoff round with him as captain (#17 was captain in '93 and '94).
cferneyh Wrote:IMO, fans have no idea who is and who isn't a great leader. Only the players on the team know. I remember when the Wings were perennial chokers and everyone said Yzerman was a crappy captain, and now HE'S THE MAN. Everyone said Dougie was a great captain, but the Leafs never won a single playoff round with him as captain (#17 was captain in '93 and '94).
I don't recall 'everyone' saying Yzerman was a crappy captain, just like I don't recall 'everyone' saying Gimour was a great captain...
cferneyh Wrote:If you criteria is "at least one ring", what does your All Time Sens team look like? An empty dressing room with crickets chirping? :lol:
Well, we only went with Original Six teams, but a Sens all time team (Third overal in total Cups BTW) Woulda looked cool with One-Eyed Cyclone Taylor. We had a starting line, 2 goalies, 1 sub.
My suggested Leafs starting line was:
Lionel Chonacher (Canada's athlete of the half century)
George Armstrong
Conn Smythe
Syl Apps
Bill Barilko
Johnny Bower (Starter)
Turk Broda (Backup)
Sub: Dave Keon
The actual team that played was (note the tyrany of the majority here) :
George Armstrong
Mats Sundin
Wendel Clark
Bill Barilko
Eddie Shack
Felix Potvin (S)
Grant Fuhr (B)
Sub: Tie Domi
The Habs team that went all the way, Five straight wins:
Maurice Richard
Guy Lafleur
Howie Morenz
Doug Harvey
Jean Beliveau (Everybody agreed he should be on the team, so we stuck him on D)
Jacques Plante (S)
Patrick Roy (B)
Stephen Dame Wrote:Well, we only went with Original Six teams, but a Sens all time team (Third overal in total Cups BTW) Woulda looked cool with One-Eyed Cyclone Taylor.
That'd be One-Eyed Frank McGee!
Stephen Dame Wrote:George Kennedy
Do you mean Ted Kennedy... or George Armstrong?
tommygunn Wrote:cferneyh Wrote:IMO, fans have no idea who is and who isn't a great leader. Only the players on the team know. I remember when the Wings were perennial chokers and everyone said Yzerman was a crappy captain, and now HE'S THE MAN. Everyone said Dougie was a great captain, but the Leafs never won a single playoff round with him as captain (#17 was captain in '93 and '94).
I don't recall 'everyone' saying Yzerman was a crappy captain, just like I don't recall 'everyone' saying Gimour was a great captain...
I recall it. I even recall that when it looked like Fedorov was going to be THE MAN there, the Wings were contemplating trading Yzerman to Ottawa.
Son of a bitch... gotta stop doing three things at once.
Yeah, George Armstrong of course... I'm writing about RFK at the moment so I've got them on the mind.
And both one-eyed Frank and Cyclone would be on the team... I might make them the Renfrew millionaires though... something appropriate today about a squad that tried to buy the Cup and pretty much created free-agency.
cferneyh Wrote:tommygunn Wrote:cferneyh Wrote:IMO, fans have no idea who is and who isn't a great leader. Only the players on the team know. I remember when the Wings were perennial chokers and everyone said Yzerman was a crappy captain, and now HE'S THE MAN. Everyone said Dougie was a great captain, but the Leafs never won a single playoff round with him as captain (#17 was captain in '93 and '94).
I don't recall 'everyone' saying Yzerman was a crappy captain, just like I don't recall 'everyone' saying Gimour was a great captain...
I recall it.
Well I for one never said it, so there goes your 'everyone' theory. :wink: