I've been a Hip fan since I was 11. It was the spring of 1995 and Nautical Disaster was everywhere (the radio, Much). When I turned 12 that summer my best friend bought me Road Apples for my birthday. My first Hip show was November 19, 1996 on the Henhouse tour. Although I don't remember much I know it was an awesome show. Since then I have seen them five more times and have never been let down. I was fortunate enough to meet the band October 2, 2002 after the second night of the IVL tour in Winnipeg. Having Gord sign my tour poster "Ryan's show 2 night" was pretty surreal.
This fall I was looking forward to seeing the band again twice in Brandon and Winnipeg. When I heard the Brandon show was cancelled I was pretty disappointed. I had made plans to go with one of my friends and we were taking my dad to his first Hip show. The fact that they cancelled due to a scheduling conflict (playing three songs probably at the Grey Cup the day before) seems a bit weak to me. Why not just do a 17 or 18 song set in Brandon? Most of us will be in Winnipeg the next night and get our fair share at that one.
Over the years The Hip have done more for their fans than 99% of bands but I've felt recently (the last 2-4 years) they've slipped. IBE was one of my favourite albums, but there seems to be something missing. I remember the interview with Johnny and Gord in 1996 where Johnny says that their fans "don't get hit over the head with all kinds of bullshit". At the time I agreed, but now I'm not sure if I do. It's not just because "my" show got cancelled. It's a combination of that, the lack of change of variety in setlists, the refusal to make a DVD (name another band of their stature that doesn't have one), the THC (or lack of) and the fact they don't release their live shows (excluding one...yay). I read in the review section that a fan asked Rob why they didn't and he said that fans won't go to seem them if they have the bootlegs. This is a perfect example of them just not getting "it". For a long time The Hip were on the cutting edge of what was happening in music. They had one of the best websites and used the internet to their advantage. Since IVL came out (or maybe since Music @ Work leaked) they've seemed to take a step back from being on the cutting edge to tagging along.
Maybe this is just how one spoiled Pearl Jam fan feels, but I'm sure there's at least a few people out there that somewhat agree with me. I'm not angry with the band or anything and they are still one of my favourites, it just seems they could be doing so much more for the fans than what they are. Stuff like the THC and the release of live shows seems so unorganized and they don't really have any direction on how it is going to go. Weren't they supposed to release ALL live shows? Speaking of lack of organization how about the late tour plans this year and cancelling shows (although it was only one) after they were announced?
Anyways, thanks to anyone that took the time to read this. I'm sure it's going to cause some discussion.
I agree with many of your points. You probably are not the only one to feel this way.
I think you make some good points also. I'm assuming new management is a big reason for the recent distancing of the band form its fans but I can't say that for sure.
In the end it's about the music, which they are still putting out.
i agree, i think the new management is to blame for all the more recent shortcomings
I agree they have really lost their sense of direction. Their web site used to be one of the best.
Rye I really have to agree with you it seems things have kind of gone downhill after phantom power, on that tour just look at all the small markets they played and how many nights they played, especially back to back shows. just go to the setlist archive from the sumer of 98 to the summer of 99, you'll be amazed. Gord had so many more rants, every night 100th was something special. not sure if it has to do with age but these guys seem to be slowing down. I don't blame the band for everything but i really think the mgmt group they got right now stinks. They've been talking about doing a live dvd for years now, how long does it take to shoot a dvd. I rarely go to their web site anymore, it's just so plain and doesn't have any details like the hipbase provides.
i think they have a steady group of hardcore loyal fans like ourselves but they have lost a lot of the casual fans. Previous canadian tours would be at least be 2 shows at ACC, 1 or 2 shows at COPPS, 1 or 2 shows at Corel Centre, 1 show in sudbury, 1 in northbay.....now it's just one show at the ACC, one at the corel centre, etc.....and they don't even sell out right away. I know they aren't selling their albums like they use to and it's time they get rid of this mgmnt team and maybe hire who ever's managing pearl jam.
Darnell
I agree about the tour portion of your statement. The IVL theatre tour did not bother to come East. The small club tour also skipped the Maritimes. And when I was out west, thanks to ticketmaster's bullshit, I did not get to see them at the small club in Calgary.
Now they're coming back. Metro Centre? Yawn. Actually make that a double-tall yaaaaaaaaaaaawn. I might not even bother to go if I had not seen them since Ottawa 2002.
I'm now going to listen to Smalltown Bringdown.
I remember back about 10 years ago, when I was 19, I used to go drinking every weekend. Most times at JJ Rossy's (oh how i miss that place) for the $4.75 pitchers of draft during happy hour. We would drink, drink, and drink. It was great.
Then I graduated, and moved to Ottawa. Now I have no homework, and am making some good $$$$ for the first time in my life. Every Friday and Sat night, I would head to the pubs and clubs, and drink my face off, sleeping until 2 in the afternoon.... rinse, lather, repeat
Then, as the years went on, I went to the bars less and less, and drank less, because I just couldn't keep up. And also, I wanted to do different things with my life then puking into my toilet bowl.
What's the moral of the story? The guys are older now. They have families and kids. Why would they want to do 2 concerts in ever city, when you can just do one, and get home quicker?
How can Gord be as manic and wild as he used to be without burning out? How can he put as much fire into NOIS now when the cigarette burned out long ago and he's sucking on the filter?
Life goes on, we get older and slower.
I look at it like this..... the early days of the hip to me are like me drinking beer. It was my party fuel, and gave me more blurry nights then starry nights.......
Now, I'd prefer a nice glass of wine, good conversation, and reflection.
Road Apples is gone my friend. Enjoy it in the historical view of the Hipworld, but it's not coming back. They have aged. It's not about agression anymore..... it's about reflection and concentration.
Gangrel Wrote:I remember back about 10 years ago, when I was 19, I used to go drinking every weekend. Most times at JJ Rossy's (oh how i miss that place) for the $4.75 pitchers of draft during happy hour. We would drink, drink, and drink. It was great.
Then I graduated, and moved to Ottawa. Now I have no homework, and am making some good $$$$ for the first time in my life. Every Friday and Sat night, I would head to the pubs and clubs, and drink my face off, sleeping until 2 in the afternoon.... rinse, lather, repeat
Then, as the years went on, I went to the bars less and less, and drank less, because I just couldn't keep up. And also, I wanted to do different things with my life then puking into my toilet bowl.
What's the moral of the story? The guys are older now. They have families and kids. Why would they want to do 2 concerts in ever city, when you can just do one, and get home quicker?
How can Gord be as manic and wild as he used to be without burning out? How can he put as much fire into NOIS now when the cigarette burned out long ago and he's sucking on the filter?
Life goes on, we get older and slower.
I look at it like this..... the early days of the hip to me are like me drinking beer. It was my party fuel, and gave me more blurry nights then starry nights.......
Now, I'd prefer a nice glass of wine, good conversation, and reflection.
Road Apples is gone my friend. Enjoy it in the historical view of the Hipworld, but it's not coming back. They have aged. It's not about agression anymore..... it's about reflection and concentration.
well said.... as much as the younger crowd thinks this will never happen, it just does..
life goes downhill at 22-23
i totally agree with you, about the age thing, sometimes i wonder how they still do it night after night, and my thoughts were that ivl and m@w were a lot more mellower for those reasons. I still liked them just in a different way, but it's the small things they can do to make fans a lit more happy, a live dvd, more info about the live recordings, a summer tour for canada instead of the winter like it always is. hey i know i'm complaining but at the end of the day i'm still thankful that the hip are around and haven't burnt out like so many other bands, i love the music and will continue to be a huge fan of theirs.
Gangrel Wrote:Road Apples is gone my friend. Enjoy it in the historical view of the Hipworld, but it's not coming back. They have aged. It's not about agression anymore..... it's about reflection and concentration.
I've thought the same thing when reading some of these posts, but there is no way in hell I could have put it so eloquently. :thumb:
i'm glad people didn't write back and disagree with the main thread.
i think everything he wrote was pretty much true. i also totally agree with GANGREL on growing older and change. the hip website used to be second to none and i always checked it but i find anthing that is ever posted on it is last weeks news. it was very disappointing that the hip haven't released the live shows from this tour especially after saying they would be. they had the perfect opportunity to make the live DVD at the homecoming show in Kingston. but the shows i seen early on in the tour were very weak compared to the shows i seen the last few weeks so maybe they felt they weren't at the top of there game yet. the hip live are what grabs and keeps fans loyal. they're not using there main strength to broaden there fan base.
I second Gingrel's emotion, and with the sentiment that (news flash) it's primarily about whether a band is making great music. All that other stuff is just bonus material, and it's a mistake, I think, to confuse that with what really *matters* about a band.
This must be an age thing (I'm in my 30s). Or maybe a dispositional thing. I've loved the Hip since UTH. But I never evaluated their worth as a band on the basis of the extent to which being a fan meant being part of some cool 'club' filled with extras, additional product to buy, live shows to download, etc, etc.. A song like 'Nautical Disaster' or a record like IBE pays for all in my book.
The question, then, is: what is a band for? Is it primarily about---as, say, The Beatles thought---producing great music, great records, and great shows (and note that a 'great show' might mean passionate, well-played music on a given night, and is not to be confused with endlessly varied setlists for the tiny number of hardcore followers who catch multiple shows, or with Downie becoming a caricature of himself by putting out obligatory rants on a nightly basis). Or is it primarily about creating some kind of ongoing daily 'community' in which the 'connection' between fan and band is constantly renwed through special deals, constant internet communication, etc.?
I hate to say it, but is it possible that, if we NEED bands to give us community, rather than viewing this as a fun, optional extra, we're in big f**king trouble?