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Fans back owners in lockout: poll

By ERIC DUHATSCHEK
From Thursday's Globe and Mail

The National Hockey League is locking out its players, leaving a $2-billion industry in limbo and putting the 2004-05 regular season and playoffs in jeopardy.

It's a dispute in which fans appear to be siding more with the owners than players. An Ipsos-Reid poll done for CTV, TSN and The Globe and Mail found that 52 per cent of Canadians blamed the players for the impasse, while only 21 per cent blamed the owners.

If the lockout lasts the entire season, it will be the first time since 1919, when an influenza epidemic cancelled the Montreal-Seattle final in mid-series, that the Stanley Cup will not be awarded.

The NHL's board of governors approved the lockout, which was to take effect at midnight, in a unanimous vote yesterday in New York. Commissioner Gary Bettman said that ever since it agreed to the current collective-bargaining deal, the NHL has been awash in red ink and that the only way to cure the financial woes is to implement a system of "cost certainty" that ties player salaries to revenues.

"We owe it to hockey's fans to achieve an economic system that will result in affordable ticket prices and stable franchises," Mr. Bettman said. "The very future of our game is at stake and the NHL's owners are united, as never before, determined to do everything humanly possible to bring hockey's economic system into the 21st century. We have no other choice."

The NHL players association labels the league's negotiating attempts a move toward a salary cap.

Bob Goodenow, the NHLPA's executive director, described the league's decision to impose a lockout as "simply the wrong way to address the issues we are facing. The players have been prepared to compromise for a very long time and have proposed frameworks that should already have produced a deal that is fair for all.

"An honest partnership can never be achieved under the league's 'my way or the highway' approach. Partnerships are built on respect, trust and willingness to compromise. Partnerships are not built through confrontation."

The Ipsos-Reid survey of 1,000 Canadians, which has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, found that six in 10 say the teams' owners are being fairer and more reasonable than the players. Half think the dispute will last long enough to cancel the 2004-05 season, but almost two-thirds agree the NHL will rebound from the dispute and possibly become a better league.

"Most of the response we've been getting is that players have to get their heads out of the sand," said Dean Brown, an Ottawa Senators broadcaster who was the host yesterday afternoon on Team 1200 radio in Ottawa. "Some are saying that players have to realize that owners have a right to own or that the players are paid too much and that a salary cap is necessary as it is in any other league."

The 750 or so members of the NHL players association are coping with the lockout in a variety of ways. Some, including the Boston Bruins' Joe Thornton, are off to Europe to play. Others have committed to a new Original Stars Hockey League that is scheduled to play its first game in Barrie, Ont., on the weekend. Still others, such as the St. Louis Blues' Chris Pronger, are continuing their education. The majority, however, will sit on the sidelines until at least Christmas to see what happens.

Mr. Bettman would not speculate on a possible time frame for settling the lockout, but said that he had instructed teams that they could release their building dates for the next 30 days, on the grounds that he didn't think a new deal could be struck within the next month.

The dispute could have a wide-ranging impact on everyone from broadcasters — including Don Cherry, who will not be paid during a lockout — to league employees who have lost their jobs, to businesses that rely on hockey crowds.

The first casualties were the 100 or so employees from the league's offices in New York, Toronto and Montreal who received their layoff notices in July and will be out of work as of Monday.

Just hours after the lockout vote, the CBC announced that 50 positions at the network will be affected, 36 in the sports department. Nancy Lee, the head of the CBC's TV Network Sports, said the unemployed include high-profile hockey personalities such as Mr. Cherry, Bob Cole, Harry Neale, Kelly Hrudey and Greg Millen.

In addition, the NHL's referees, linesmen and part-time, off-ice officials will not be paid until after play resumes, under terms of their own collective-bargaining agreement with the league, signed in September, 2001.

Brad Marsh, the former Ottawa Senators player who operates a bar inside the Corel Centre, predicted that the lockout is "going to affect a lot of people and if it lasts long, I'm out of business."

At the heart of the dispute is how to divide the almost $2.1-billion in revenues the NHL generated during the 2003-04 season. Under Mr. Bettman's models, the players would be granted just over 50 per cent of the gross, which would reduce the average player salary to $1.3-million a season from $1.83-million. The players association called that a salary cap.

Mr. Bettman said that "flaws in the NHL salary system" were "increasingly difficult to overcome over the past several years" and argued: "We, at the National Hockey League, have done everything possible to negotiate a new collective-bargaining agreement, day in and day out, to serve the best interests of everyone involved. Sadly, those interests have not achieved their objectives."

Mr. Goodenow questioned the veracity of the NHL's financial statements.

"The league continues to make selective and distorted references to team finances," he said. "We have seen some of the NHL's data, but only after signing confidentiality agreements that prevent us from offering specific comments. As the NHL continues to claim its financial survival is at stake, it should open its books and let everyone see the teams claiming these losses. We have publicly asked the NHL to do so, but they steadfastly refuse to expose the information to the light of day."

Former NHL star Wayne Gretzky, a minority shareholder in the Phoenix Coyotes, said he would not intervene in the dispute. The last time around, Mr. Gretzky was a player and he is still held in high regard by many members of the NHLPA's rank and file.

"This is way over my head," Mr. Gretzky said. "I had a conversation with Mr. Bettman six months ago. The conversation was more on the basis of what they were going to do, how they were going to handle it.

"Quite frankly, Bob Goodenow works really hard for the union and Mr. Bettman works really hard for the owners. It's in their hands."

That didn't sound too likely yesterday.

"It is unforgivable that the union could see this bleak day approaching and not lift a finger to prevent its arrival," Mr. Bettman said.

Mr. Goodenow answered: "The players remain prepared to negotiate a fair agreement with the owners. But we need a negotiating partner who understands that agreements are the products of compromise. We do not have such a negotiating partner now."
What I would like to know is where is the fan in all of this? we are the ones that keep this game going. It is our money they are fighting over. Not that we could do much individually but come on lower ticket prices already. For that to happen the players and owners must take pay cuts. What ever happened to playing for the love of the game or does that only happen in international hockey now? It is big business but they won't be doing any business if they don't straighten out. This whole thing makes me very angry. It is going to be a very long winter when the best hockey I can watch is the WHL. (which is great hockey for 16-20 year olds)
Mr. Basketball (bettman) tries to make hockey viable in markets where it is never going to be popular. Sure Tampa might put a few fans in the seats (mostly transplants from some northern place anyways) while the team wins, but at the end of the day, hockey will never be succesful there.

Hockey will never get the big US TV deal it desperately needs in order to compete with other major sports. It will never come close to the success of baseball, even though baseball has been universally declared boring, let alone basketball or football. The NHL is fighting a losing battle. A battle I hope they lose.

Anyone who thinks this is bad for hockey needs to realize what hockey really is. Hockey is a game. A game that shouldn't cost a fortune to see. Hockey will benefit from a strike. People will realize that going to see the Kitchener Rangers (a Junior A team) on a Saturday night is 10x more fun than sitting on the couch at home swearing at the TV, watching Nik Antropov and Aki Berg.

People can start going to minor hockey games. I know from experience that Midget AAA hockey game can be highly entertaining (and it won't cost you a cent to get into the rink).

I know where I live, we have a Junior B team in town, as well as a Senior A team (the Cambridge Hornets). It looks like the Hornets are going to have local boy Scott Walker come out and play for them (leading scorer for the Predators last season). So for like $6, anyone in town can watch a high level NHL hockey player perform 20 feet away from you.

Last year, even though I had like 6 exams in 7 days, I was glued to the TV watching the playoffs, because the NHL playoffs are fabulous, but let's face it. The regular season is boring. Some nights it doesn't even look like they care. When people see the alternatives that are open to them, they will realize, they aren't missing a thing with hockey gone this season.

This strike is going to great from local hockey, which I see as being a huge positive.
I think I speak for every Flames fan when I say that this lockout is the worst possible thing to happen to us right now. After years of pain and suffering we finally have our dream team in place. The changes Sutter made in the off-season has us looking stronger than ever, most notably yesterday's signing of top-rated rookie defenceman Dion Phaneuf. Not to mention we have the best one-two goaltending tandem in the league. All we have to do now is get Iggy signed and everything will be perfect. But now thanks to the boneheads at the NHL and NHLPA, any momentum the Flames had coming off of last season is now dead in the water. Thanks a lot, you greedy bastards. Thanks for destroying our city's hopes and dreams of returning our team to glory.
direwolf74 Wrote:I think I speak for every Flames fan when I say that this lockout is the worst possible thing to happen to us right now. After years of pain and suffering we finally have our dream team in place. The changes Sutter made in the off-season has us looking stronger than ever, most notably yesterday's signing of top-rated rookie defenceman Dion Phaneuf. Not to mention we have the best one-two goaltending tandem in the league. All we have to do now is get Iggy signed and everything will be perfect. But now thanks to the boneheads at the NHL and NHLPA, any momentum the Flames had coming off of last season is now dead in the water. Thanks a lot, you greedy bastards. Thanks for destroying our city's hopes and dreams of returning our team to glory.
Interesting you should have that view...I was under the impression it was teams like the Flames that would benefit the most from "the new NHL", what with it's cost certainty, salary caps/luxury tax, etc...

To me, nomatter what eventually happens, it's young teams like the Sens, Flames and Oilers that will ultimately be the big winners, while the aged, big spenders (read: Leafs) will be the ones scrambling for survival ON the ice...

While I can understand your frustration after that amazing run, the irony is that a prolonged stoppage and newly structured NHL is your best chance at repeating the feat year-after-year in the future...Unlike the Leafs, who's window of opportunity slammed shut at 12:01am the other night...

Just my $0.02...

M.
MikeS Wrote:
direwolf74 Wrote:I think I speak for every Flames fan when I say that this lockout is the worst possible thing to happen to us right now. After years of pain and suffering we finally have our dream team in place. The changes Sutter made in the off-season has us looking stronger than ever, most notably yesterday's signing of top-rated rookie defenceman Dion Phaneuf. Not to mention we have the best one-two goaltending tandem in the league. All we have to do now is get Iggy signed and everything will be perfect. But now thanks to the boneheads at the NHL and NHLPA, any momentum the Flames had coming off of last season is now dead in the water. Thanks a lot, you greedy bastards. Thanks for destroying our city's hopes and dreams of returning our team to glory.
Interesting you should have that view...I was under the impression it was teams like the Flames that would benefit the most from "the new NHL", what with it's cost certainty, salary caps/luxury tax, etc...

To me, nomatter what eventually happens, it's young teams like the Sens, Flames and Oilers that will ultimately be the big winners, while the aged, big spenders (read: Leafs) will be the ones scrambling for survival ON the ice...

While I can understand your frustration after that amazing run, the irony is that a prolonged stoppage and newly structured NHL is your best chance at repeating the feat year-after-year in the future...Unlike the Leafs, who's window of opportunity slammed shut at 12:01am the other night...

Just my $0.02...

M.

I think the Rangers, Stars, and Blues have already proven that a bloated team salary doesn't guarantee success in this league. Sure, talent is important, but work ethic, chemistry, good coaching (and a goaltender having a great year) are even more important.

Case in point (I won't even touch the Rangers and that moron Sather): the Blues are always at the top with salary yet they do squat come playoff time. Yet they pay that jackass Tkachuk $9 million and he always, always, always takes stupid and costly penalties in the playoffs. And look at their recent string of goaltenders! Yeah, Lalime! He's the answer for a team that has notoriously underperformed in the playoffs. Hell, why not just go get CuBlow again and pay him $9 million to crap the bed?

Anyway, what a cap is going to do is protect the smart owners who understand how to operate on a budget from the idiot owners who think that Bill Guerin and Bobby Holik are worth $9 million a season.
MikeS Wrote:
direwolf74 Wrote:I think I speak for every Flames fan when I say that this lockout is the worst possible thing to happen to us right now. After years of pain and suffering we finally have our dream team in place. The changes Sutter made in the off-season has us looking stronger than ever, most notably yesterday's signing of top-rated rookie defenceman Dion Phaneuf. Not to mention we have the best one-two goaltending tandem in the league. All we have to do now is get Iggy signed and everything will be perfect. But now thanks to the boneheads at the NHL and NHLPA, any momentum the Flames had coming off of last season is now dead in the water. Thanks a lot, you greedy bastards. Thanks for destroying our city's hopes and dreams of returning our team to glory.
Interesting you should have that view...I was under the impression it was teams like the Flames that would benefit the most from "the new NHL", what with it's cost certainty, salary caps/luxury tax, etc...

To me, nomatter what eventually happens, it's young teams like the Sens, Flames and Oilers that will ultimately be the big winners, while the aged, big spenders (read: Leafs) will be the ones scrambling for survival ON the ice...

While I can understand your frustration after that amazing run, the irony is that a prolonged stoppage and newly structured NHL is your best chance at repeating the feat year-after-year in the future...Unlike the Leafs, who's window of opportunity slammed shut at 12:01am the other night...

Just my $0.02...

M.


I agree that the young small market teams will eventually benefit from this thing (hopefully). Basically I'm just venting frustration at the prospect of having no Flames hockey to watch this winter. You have no idea how excited I was to get the new season underway. After yesterday's news, the spirit of the city has been totally deflated, but if this thing works out in the long run, I'm sure everybody will cheer up eventually. We're just bummed right now, that's all.
cferneyh Wrote:I think the Rangers, Stars, and Blues have already proven that a bloated team salary doesn't guarantee success in this league. Sure, talent is important, but work ethic, chemistry, good coaching (and a goaltender having a great year) are even more important.

Case in point (I won't even touch the Rangers and that moron Sather): the Blues are always at the top with salary yet they do squat come playoff time. Yet they pay that jackass Tkachuk $9 million and he always, always, always takes stupid and costly penalties in the playoffs. And look at their recent string of goaltenders! Yeah, Lalime! He's the answer for a team that has notoriously underperformed in the playoffs. Hell, why not just go get CuBlow again and pay him $9 million to crap the bed?

Anyway, what a cap is going to do is protect the smart owners who understand how to operate on a budget from the idiot owners who think that Bill Guerin and Bobby Holik are worth $9 million a season.
A hard NFL-style cap, maybe, but if there's a luxury tax penalty system (as in MLB and the NBA) the rich teams will continue to outbid the poorer ones and just pass the tax on to the fans via higher ticket prices...lord knows with a 5-digit waiting list for season tickets in Toronto, there will never be a shortage of "revenue streams" here...

That said, a hard cap is not without it's own significant problems, and only really works if you concurrently institute either a) non-guaranteed contracts, so you can cut a player without cap-related penalty (as in the NFL), or b) seriously enhanced unrestricted free-agency (say at age 25). The net result of either/both of these is a revolving door roster system like the NFL, as the high-end, high-cost players become more easily releaseable and replaceable. Good young teams (eg. Ottawa and Calgary) would actually be hindered in their ability to keep all their players once they reached a certain star level. The NFL is littered with teams who got too good, too fast (eg. Tampa, Baltimore, Jacksonville) and had to dump big name stars to stay under the cap.

Then of course there's also the issue of rich teams circumventing the cap by front-end or back-end loading contracts with huge "signing bonuses", but that's a topic for another day...

I don't know what the answer is, but (and I know I'm in the minority on this one) I don't believe a salary cap of any kind is the magic bullet to solve the league's ills...In many ways, particularly south of the 49th, this is already a terminal patient who may not be coming back under any circumstances...

M.
I say bring back the original 6, fuck em all!!!
Apparently Bettman and Goodenow will be talking this week, but to fans, not each other...

NHL labour leaders to face fans on CBC

TORONTO (CP) -- Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow may feel the wrath of irate hockey fans this week.

Bettman, the NHL's commissioner, will field questions from CBC viewers on a special edition of the National on Tuesday night. Goodenow, executive director of the NHL Players' Association, will do the same the following night with anchor Peter Mansbridge hosting both special editions of the National (9 p.m. EDT on CBC Newsworld, 10 p.m. EDT on CBC).

The NHL, as expected, decided to lock out players last week after the expiry of the collective bargaining agreement. The league wants a salary cap to reel in spiralling salaries that it says has led to nearly half a billion US in losses over the last two seasons alone.

The NHLPA says it will never accept a salary cap, having instead proposed a luxury tax among other concessions.

Both sides remain entrenched in their positions and haven't met for talks since Sept. 9.
Im unemployed because of these idiots, I work(ed) at Gm Place. Anyone in need of a consummate hot dog wrapper?
Why not, I'll bring you aboard. You and the olive de-pimento'er and the oyster shucker and the professional melon baller all get to share a guest house beside my mansion, and the Olympic pool is always open. But I have seperate pool boys to scoop leaves, add chlorine and test the water temperature so it's usually pretty crowded.
"the players are the heart and soul of the league, without them there would be nothing" - K-OS on the NHL lockout, taking the side of the players on OTR yesterday :mrgreen:.
Players come and go. The franchises are what survive (well, most of 'em anyway).
...but there would be no franchises without players...it's hard to play hockey without hockey players...don't ya think :roll:.
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