PunBB

TORONTO - Bill Daly, NHL Executive Vice President and Chief Legal Officer, today released the following statement:

"We are extremely disappointed with what the Union presented to us today. Not only did the Union's proposal fail to move the process toward a resolution but, in fact, represented a step backwards in the process.

"As we predicted, two weeks ago in Ottawa, the Union has simply repackaged its original unacceptable and ineffective proposal from 15 months ago -- and even watered it down. Even under the Union's modeling and projections, which we do not agree with or accept, more than half of our Clubs would still lose money and nearly a third of the Clubs would still lose in excess of $10 million each season.

"Nothing more clearly demonstrates the Union's unwillingness to acknowledge or meaningfully address this League's problems than this recycled proposal.

"No further meetings are scheduled at this time."





Taken from nhlcbanews.com

Well if they were to get this sorted out in time for a season in October, it would be like scoring six third-period goals to win a game from 5 goals down. Each is just as impractical as the other.

Looks like it's going to be a long haul through the winter...dark days, my friends. This means Canada HAS to win the World Cup because it'll be agonizing to dwell on a washout with no alternate hockey to quell the discomfort!!!

NhL MUST retract. Way too many teams are losing money, and im tired of seeing arenas with empty seats. If winnipeg got their team back there would not be 1 empty seat no matter what the record. Hockey needs to take a couple years off to redesign their screwed up league!

Yeah I won't be too sad if there is no hockey this year.

Why do the players think they can call the shots when it comes to how things are done. ,Play the game get paid what you desrve to get paid and realize how lucky you are to even be where you are. Deconstruct this league and start an new one, if the players don't want a salary cap.

Why do you need a salary cap though? It's the owners that write the contracts, so why are they crying about how much THEY PAY the players? No one put a gun to their head and made them pay the players that much. It' there own fault for letting the situation get where it is.

Blaming the players is just stupid. Of course they are want to get paid as much as possible, just like anyone else. It's the owners that dug their own hole.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the owners.

Number Four Bobby Orr Wrote:Why do you need a salary cap though? It's the owners that write the contracts, so why are they crying about how much THEY PAY the players? No one put a gun to their head and made them pay the players that much. It' there own fault for letting the situation get where it is.

Blaming the players is just stupid. Of course they are want to get paid as much as possible, just like anyone else. It's the owners that dug their own hole.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the owners.

This is true to a certain extent. While the owners have only themselves to blame it is only a select few owners who are to blame. There are a lot of owners/teams out there who are running a tight and profitable ship. However, the idiot owners of the NY Rangers, the St. Louis Blues, and the Dallas Stars (hey, let's pay Bill Guerin $9 million! And let's pay a washed up Pierre Turgeon $7 million!) among others are screwing it up by inflating the overall market because of bad decisions on some contracts. Bobby Holik is, at best, a second line centre. Yet the Rag$ decided it was a good idea to pay him $9 million per season. NINE MILLION! What this does is inflate the value of all other 2nd line centres in the league who say in arbitration: "If Bobby Holik is worth $9 million, then I'm certainly worth $5 million". So a smart owner gets screwed because all of the sudden his 2nd line centre wins a $5 million contract in arbitration, all because the idiot Rag$ and idiot Sather decided to pay Holik $9 million.

So yeah, some of the owners are to blame, but most of them aren't.

On the player side, the fact that they are unwilling to share in any of the risk is hilarious. They want a huge piece of the pie when revenues are going up (fair enough), but now that revenues are going down they still want their huge piece of the pie. The NBA and NFL have salary caps tied to league revenue which has helped make both leagues incredibly successful - which is win/win for both owners and players. Yet the NHLPA seems to think that the owners should bear all of the risk and the players should face no risk whatsoever. Absolutely comical.

Number Four Bobby Orr Wrote:Why do you need a salary cap though? It's the owners that write the contracts, so why are they crying about how much THEY PAY the players? No one put a gun to their head and made them pay the players that much. It' there own fault for letting the situation get where it is.

Blaming the players is just stupid. Of course they are want to get paid as much as possible, just like anyone else. It's the owners that dug their own hole.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the owners.

It's simple supply and demand. If Owner "A" decides not to pay a Superstar and inflated contract, the star knows that there is another owner out there somewhere that will. The Owners pay these high salaries because that is what the players or rather their agents demand. The only way to level the playing field is to implement a Salary Cap. The players have to look past their own greed and see that the only way the NHL is going to survive is with the implementation of a Salary Cap, no if ands or buts.

The NHL needs to take a page out of the NFL's book and implement a Salary Cap and profit sharing. It is the only way the small markets can compete with the larger markets, it creates parity in the league and makes for a more entertaining game.

Fortunately the NHL and the Owners are trying to do this, it is the players that are too stubborn to see that this is not an issue of greed, but an issue of league survival.

I have no sympathy for the players.

thedarkestone Wrote:If Owner "A" decides not to pay a Superstar and inflated contract, the star knows that there is another owner out there somewhere that will. The Owners pay these high salaries because that is what the players or rather their agents demand.

But that's the point - it is the owners who have made bad business decisions in running their teams that are screwing it up for all other teams. If no one offered Bill Guerin $9 million, he wouldn't be making $9 million.

Look at it this way - if someone told you you could make twice as much as you make now working somewhere else, wouldn't you take it? Of course you would. But if NO ONE was willing to pay you double, then you'd likely just sit tight.

Yes, the players (and player agents) are greedy, but a salary cap is to protect owners from themselves.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that Trevor Linden is the president of the players' executive committee? That bum hasn't earned his salary for the past ten years.

cferneyh Wrote:

thedarkestone Wrote:If Owner "A" decides not to pay a Superstar and inflated contract, the star knows that there is another owner out there somewhere that will. The Owners pay these high salaries because that is what the players or rather their agents demand.

But that's the point - it is the owners who have made bad business decisions in running their teams that are screwing it up for all other teams. If no one offered Bill Guerin $9 million, he wouldn't be making $9 million.

Look at it this way - if someone told you you could make twice as much as you make now working somewhere else, wouldn't you take it? Of course you would. But if NO ONE was willing to pay you double, then you'd likely just sit tight.

Yes, the players (and player agents) are greedy, but a salary cap is to protect owners from themselves.

Does anyone else find it hilarious that Trevor Linden is the president of the players' executive committee? That bum hasn't earned his salary for the past ten years.

In theory you are correct. We have the same problems in the business I work in. Companies are losing money/not making any money because the rates they charge are too low. Most of them would love to raise their rates, but there are still the companies out there that will work for nothing just to accquire the new business. (Compare that to owners who are still willing to pay huge salaries.) It is the nature of a competitive marketplace. An owner has to make business decisions and if he has to spend an extra $3 million more than his competitior to draw that big name that is gonna fill his seats, sell his merchandise and even give him a stanley cup.......can you blame him??? Afterall he is running a business and he is going to do whatever he can to keep his compeittive advantage. Let's face it, the League (or any industry in a capitalist society for that matter) is never going to get together and level their own playing field. It has to be mandated for them and in this case, that is what a Salary Cap will do.

Don't get me wrong I am not placing the blame soley on the players, the owners are a large part of it too, but they are equal partners in crime and now that drastic measures have to be taken, it is the players that are too stubborn to budge.

This isn't about the owners trying to stuff more money into their jeans.....this is about the owners trying to survive and the league trying to survive.

thedarkestone Wrote:An owner has to make business decisions and if he has to spend an extra $3 million more than his competitior to draw that big name that is gonna fill his seats, sell his merchandise and even give him a stanley cup.......can you blame him???

But it is one thing to pay a Forsberg, a Sakic, or some other superstar $10 million because they do put butts in seats, they do sell merchandise, they do help your chances of winning a Cup, but look at the top salaries for 2004/2005 (for players currently under contract):

Jagr Jaromir Forward New York Rangers $11,000,000
Yashin Alexei Forward New York Islanders $10,000,000
Lidstrom Nicklas Defence Detroit Red Wings $10,000,000
Pronger Chris Defence St. Louis Blues $10,000,000
LeClair John Forward Philadelphia Flyers $9,000,000
Modano Michael Forward Dallas Stars $9,000,000
Tkachuk Keith Forward St. Louis Blues $9,000,000
Guerin Bill Forward Dallas Stars $8,866,445
Holik Robert Forward New York Rangers $8,850,000
Sakic Joe Forward Colorado Avalanche $8,740,939

LeClair? Yashin? Tkachuk? Guerin? Holik? Does anyone actually say: "I'm going to tonight's game because I want to see Holik play"? Of course not. The idiot owners who decided to pay those 2nd tier clowns first tier money are the ones screwing it up for everyone else.

And as we've learned from the NY Rangers, the Flames, the Lightning, and the Devils, spending a boatload of cash does not increase or decrease your chances of winning the Cup. It might (usually) work in an individualistic sport like baseball, but in hockey, where things like coaching and chemistry are more important than talent, spending more doesn't necessarily mean a damn thing.

But you are bang on when you say the players and the owners are the equal partners of crime here, which is why it is so ridiculous that the players refuse to accept any of the risk involved.

cferneyh Wrote:LeClair? Yashin? Tkachuk? Guerin? Holik? Does anyone actually say: "I'm going to tonight's game because I want to see Holik play"? Of course not. The idiot owners who decided to pay those 2nd tier clowns first tier money are the ones screwing it up for everyone else.

LOL. I know what you are saying. I guess the point I am trying to make is that you guys are saying the Owners should have banded together and never have forked out large salaries. That is exactly what they are trying to do by having a salary cap implemented.

Its not like they could have just unofficially gotten together and agreed not to pay any player over $1million. That would be collusion and the NHLPA would have them in court so quickly nothing would change. The Owner's hands are tied unless they get their salary Cap.

Its all so sad. We just came off the best playoffs in memory straight into a real entertaining world cup. This would be the perfect intro into a new season but instead we get bickering and little hope. When there is no season I would like to see the CHL expand their 20 year old limit. There is going to be some talent in that league this year.

thedarkestone Wrote:LOL. I know what you are saying. I guess the point I am trying to make is that you guys are saying the Owners should have banded together and never have forked out large salaries. That is exactly what they are trying to do by having a salary cap implemented.

Its not like they could have just unofficially gotten together and agreed not to pay any player over $1million. That would be collusion and the NHLPA would have them in court so quickly nothing would change. The Owner's hands are tied unless they get their salary Cap.

Your point is very valid. They certainly couldn't have colluded. I guess what I am trying to say is that you shouldn't paint all owners with the same brush. Most of them know what they are doing - they know what a player is worth within their business model. But there are a few who are morons. Tom Hicks is the best example (owner of the Dallas Stars). This is the guy who thought paying A-Rod $252 million to pay for his Texas Rangers would make them competitive. Three years later he realizes that he made a huge boo-boo business-wise so he has to sell A-Rod to the Spankees, and he still has to pay a huge chunk of A-Fraud's salary! Well, Tom Hicks is the same clown who decided to pay Guerin $9 million, and now he's trying to trade Guerin because he's come to realize (too late) that a 2nd tier player like Guerin is not worth top tier money. This hurts teams like Calgary and Vancouver when it comes to time to negotiate a salary for Iginla and Bertuzzi because their agents simply look at Guerin's contract and say: "If Guerin gets $9, Iginla should get $12."

Anyway, this is a long, drawn out way of saying that owners certainly shouldn't collude to artificially supress salaries, but all it takes is one idiot owner, like Tom Hicks, to ruin it for the 20 who know what they are doing. The concept of the salary cap is to protect the 25 smart owners against the idiot owners in Dallas and St. Louis, and the Idiot GM Sather.

Remember when Sather said in the early 90s that if he had NY's payroll he'd never lose a game?

Part of the fault with the looming lockout can also be found with the agents. These are the guys who run around and pretend that another team has interest in their client and jack up the price by being unethical. This also happens in the NFL and baseball. Kevin Brown is a good example of a guy whose agent was willing to play fast and loose with facts by telling the Dodgers he had another other from another team and pressured the Dodgers into giving Brown a $100 million dollar contract( I think that figure is correct) when there was no other offer. It's one thing for a moron GM or owner to buy into the hype of a player and offer more than the guy is worth, but quite another when the guy gets a contract by scamming the owner.