In response to the article posted on the front page.
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(thanks Ryan2)
I don't like the idea of the hip releasing the single just to test the fans? I will always be a fan of the hip. What happened to people enjoying the music. We all buy the albums, tshirts, poster, concert tickets etc.
Is The Hip turning into money grumbling people more concerned about the all might $?
Just my two-cents worth from the Comments:
I enjoy their music and have purchased every album they have released thus far (not to mention both of Gord's solo albums). When In Between Evolution arrives in stores, I'll do the same. I don't agree with having to purchase single tracks over the Internet, it seems like a money grab when what they should be doing is sparking intrest to their upcoming album. They should be happy the interest is there and people enjoy their music. To put shame on to fans for downloading their new (great) single for free just doesn't seem like the message I would be expecting from them.
In my opinion, if the 'Hip gave fans the opportunity to download the track for free, it would not only make a lot of people happy but also let soon-to-be fans experience their work. I hoped the 'Hip would be more liberal and savvy on the issue on Internet music -- I was wrong.
I agree with what you are saying. However, I think it was the author of the article who said "Shame on you all". Just so you dont think that was coming from the boys themsleves.
Anyway, I was surprised to see that article, it is the first of that kind that I have seen dealing with a track release and an individual band. At first I thought it was made up, and it does seem to me that the article placed everything out of context. There were only a couple of quotes from The Hip, so it doesnt seem to me that they are in an uproar over it. Sounds like Chart Attack just wanted to print an out-there article, and they did.
Thats just my humble opinion though...
I totally agree with the posts so far. Maybe if The Hip released singles with b-sides (unreleased tracks) in stores, I'd go buy it. However they don't release singles with anything worthwhile on it, or give die-hard fans any reason to go out of their way to purchase something they already own, or will own they day of the albums release.
How is downloading a song any different than requesting it over and over on the radio in hopes that they play the song every hour? (I guess the artists gets a dime every time it gets played or something like that, but do you understand my point?)
I also didn't like the comment about teenagers not buying anything. I got my first Hip CD for my birthday in 1995 when I turned 12. As a teenager I bought every CD that came out, the day it came out from TATH onwards, I saw The Hip three times in concert, and owned various t-shirts and other souviners/memoriblia.
I think the band/their label are still pissed off at what happend with Music @ Work when it got leaked. People bad mouth Metallica over their fight against Napster...at least Metallica was fighting for control over their music (distributing it over means they see fit) rather than "supporting the artist" (which I think is Gord Sinclair's politically correct way of saying "go buy our song).
Yeah, I'm a huge Hip fan but this pissed me off a little bit. I buy the albums and don't need to be told that I'm not "supporting the artist". It's fine that they want to get paid but they should just treat it like Neil Young and not make a big deal of downloading.
They've earned the right to make the money they do but lately I haven't been that impressed with the way the new album has been handled. In February the website stated news was coming very soon and the record was mixed and recorded. What was it, two months until the next update? Then the news that the record was being released at the END of JUNE! Why not make fans wait a year for **** sake! There are no updates on the band, just false promises it seems.
Anyway, I listen to the Hip ten thousand times more than I listen other bands but I think the fans are being treated poorly>
What a load of "fill in blank".
Puretracks?? Puretracks?? you might as well have put it on someones computer and unplugged the net connection.
#1. This may just be for me, but Mac users can't buy it.
#2. No one outside of Canada can buy it. reeeeal smart.
#3. Anyone who doesn't own a credit card can't buy it.
and #4. What is the Hip Club for now-a-days???
Since when was the Hip so concentrated on making a few bucks off 99 cent songs? So essentially you're charging the fans to beta test a song. The idea is to preview the music of upcoming CDs. Many bands do this for free.
This guy has no clue about the true hip fans. Everyone in this Forum that downloaded that song, is 99.9 percent likely to go buy it on June 29th.
Accessability is the key to getting the word out. This track was not very accessable
As I said, I dont thik the boys were the ones to put this into motion. I think it was just some journalists looking to write a story...
Well put deadparrot. I too am a mac user who lives in the US so I am shut out. I can sit and wait til the end of June and listen to fellow hip fans talk about the new material. Sounds like a blast. Gord had the right approach with his last album with the digital downloads. I supported him and loved the risk taking approach to his music. I hope this article is not very accurate. This is one way to piss off your fans. Not because they feel it is ok to steal, but because it craps on their loyalty to attending shows, buying merchandise and yes buying music.
This is an article meant to shame music Dowloaders , propaganda by the record execs...This is no message from the Hip , this is from record companies who are losing the dough, the same ones who pump out the commercial crap to make a buck. As for the Gord Sinclair quote , sounds like a handy place to interject that statement , but without the direct question asked to Gord who knows what context that answer was given in. The Question could have been " What do you think of illegal bootleg albums that some people are selling to make a profit ?" Context is everything. Nice ending to it too ""At the end of the day it’s like, ‘Will you guys start playing fair?’ I mean, some sharing, OK, but this? Everyone knows this is wrong. This is really, badly wrong." Shame on you all. " Hahahah , makes me giggle.. Thanks pure tracks for the lesson in morality.. Now if I wanted to slant the story in favor of downloading I could interject these comments from this Hip show ;
Musique Plus
Intimate and Interactive
Montreal PQ
June 21st, 2000
ON COPYRIGHT LAWS
Bruce(audience member): Would the group support a fan initiative of petitioning the government to get a change in the copyright laws ?
GD: Uh, Change in the copyright laws to reflect ?
Bruce: Well in relation to the new album that was distibuted in April, this year, prior to the actual release, uh, there's no particular copyright law that I know of present in Canada as there is in the States, um and I think it's the next thing to theft from this group that music was taken and distributed. So what i'm asking is "If the fanbase lobbied the government for changes in copyright laws, does the Tragically Hip support that initiative ?
GD: The fanbase is going to do that though ? The fanbase is going to organise and say that "we think we should have less access to this music than we have now " I mean, I just don't know, I don't, ah... i'm not sure if that's what you're asking me, ah but I can't imagine, I mean basically it's a fanbase that are trying to get the music early because they can, because they're interested, and they're curious and they're excited about it, and ah, if it's theft um, don't stop. It's only money Bruce.
deadparrot Wrote:#4. What is the Hip Club for now-a-days???
Exactly what I was thinking.
I hopped on their site a couple weeks ago after I heard their new single in hopes of being able to download a quality mp3 for my support of their music. I'd like to see them use The Hip Club to it's full potential, they could spark so much renewed interest to their music and give die-hard fans so much more content from this feature alone.
I think it's more of an issue than just songs and content, it needs to be updated more frequently with a sense of community. I guess that can be saved for another thread though.
There was an article on the same story in the star - it said that Less then 1000 copies of vaccination scar were sold
Here's an article on the effects of file sharing from March 29, 2004 . Obviously this doesn't address revenue lost from sites such as Puretracks.
Music sharing doesn't kill CD sales, study says
A study of file-sharing's effects on music sales says online music trading appears to have had little part in the recent slide in CD sales.
For the study, released Monday, researchers at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina tracked music downloads over 17 weeks in 2002, matching data on file transfers with actual market performance of the songs and albums being downloaded. Even high levels of file-swapping seemed to translate into an effect on album sales that was "statistically indistinguishable from zero," they wrote.
"We find that file sharing has only had a limited effect on record sales," the study's authors wrote. "While downloads occur on a vast scale, most users are likely individuals who would not have bought the album even in the absence of file sharing."
Here is the link to the rest of the story <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top">http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562 ... g=nefd_top</a><!-- m -->
Ryan2 Wrote:There was an article on the same story in the star - it said that Less then 1000 copies of vaccination scar were sold
If selling 1000 copies puts you in first place, Puretracks SUCKS bigtime.
tigerthelion Wrote:Yeah, I'm a huge Hip fan but this pissed me off a little bit. I buy the albums and don't need to be told that I'm not "supporting the artist".
Well said. And, it you downloaded the song, chances are you're a serious enoughg fan to buy the whole album when it came out.
deadparrot Wrote:What a load of "fill in blank".
Puretracks?? Puretracks?? you might as well have put it on someones computer and unplugged the net connection.
#1. This may just be for me, but Mac users can't buy it.
#2. No one outside of Canada can buy it. reeeeal smart.
#3. Anyone who doesn't own a credit card can't buy it.
and #4. What is the Hip Club for now-a-days???
Since when was the Hip so concentrated on making a few bucks off 99 cent songs? So essentially you're charging the fans to beta test a song. The idea is to preview the music of upcoming CDs. Many bands do this for free.
This guy has no clue about the true hip fans. Everyone in this Forum that downloaded that song, is 99.9 percent likely to go buy it on June 29th.
Accessability is the key to getting the word out. This track was not very accessable
I could not have said it better.
CanuckCourage Wrote:Here's an article on the effects of file sharing from March 29, 2004 . Obviously this doesn't address revenue lost from sites such as Puretracks.
Music sharing doesn't kill CD sales, study says
A study of file-sharing's effects on music sales says online music trading appears to have had little part in the recent slide in CD sales.
For the study, released Monday, researchers at Harvard University and the University of North Carolina tracked music downloads over 17 weeks in 2002, matching data on file transfers with actual market performance of the songs and albums being downloaded. Even high levels of file-swapping seemed to translate into an effect on album sales that was "statistically indistinguishable from zero," they wrote.
"We find that file sharing has only had a limited effect on record sales," the study's authors wrote. "While downloads occur on a vast scale, most users are likely individuals who would not have bought the album even in the absence of file sharing."
Here is the link to the rest of the story <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?tag=nefd_top">http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5181562 ... g=nefd_top</a><!-- m -->
I've never understood the big fuss made about file sharing and I'm glad this article proves the limited effect of downloading on CD sales.
Maybe I'm repeating whats already been said but the way I see it the people that download music can be categorized in three groups:
1. The real fans that are impatient and will go out and buy the album anyways, just because they always have done and always will do.
2. People who use downloading to get to know the Hip. If they don't like the music no loss there. They may not buy the album but, as it says in the article, they "would not have bought the album even in the absence of file sharing" - after all there's only a few people willing to splurge on a CD without a sufficient sense as to what the band is about.
BUT
3. Then there's another group who want to get to know the band better, they download tunes, decide they like/love the music (clever as they are), become fans, buy CD's, go to shows. Again without downloading they may not have been enticed to get the CD but because they had access and were able to get a feel of the music they became fans - the Hip might have lost out on this group without file sharing. In that sense programs such as Kazaa are only beneficial to a band.
Plus isn't it true that bands don't even really make that much money off CD sales? Most of it goes to record companies I heard. Doesn't touring and playing shows give the band most profit?