Killer Whale Tank Wrote:The profound connection between popular music and youthful idenitity that existed through the rock and roll era has been substantially (though not entirely) eroded.
You're not wrong, but every generation has these sentiments about the generations before. My grandfather thought rock music was barbaric and lacking the emotional depth of classical. Children of the 60's think it's been all downhill from the Beatles. Everyone thinks their generation got it right. The truth is there has always been music for every palette. When Bob Dylan was popular, the Mommas & Poppas were on the radio too. Locked In The Trunk Of The Car was on the charts right there beside Mariah Carey and Celine Dion. When a Drake song comes on a basketball game I see the kids connecting the same way I do to the Hip. They dig it. And to be honest, it would be weird if the same band stayed at the centre of pop culture. I like that trends come and go...though I do think we're about ready for the wheel to come back around to some rock n roll.
But I agree wholeheartedly with you that the Hip were the band for our generation, and this was the album that cemented it.
andrew sharpe, as with our previous exchange on artistic standards, you're 'reading in' to what I wrote in a way that moves me somewhat off-point. I wasn't trying to argue that today's youth is going to hell in a handbasket, or that their music sucks (although it does - Drake as some great artist, oh please :lol: ). What I said was that there has been a shift, not in the quality of music - that's a separate debate - but in the way young people conceive of and relate to it. So, I'm suggesting that
1. Music does not, on the whole, occupy as important a place in their identities as it did for the generations that came of age between 1955 and (say) 1995. Of course they still like music (that's a human universal, obviously), but technology has to some extent supplanted the role that music once played in terms of being the locus of young people's quest for expression and identity. I offer no opinion at all on whether that's a good or bad thing. All of this stuff is historically contingent; in the 19th century, educated young people used poetry, not popular music, to express and discover themselves, which is why people like Shelley and Byron and Tennyson were thought to be so profoundly important. Their works were sites through which young people made sense of their culture and their lives. By the 1960s poetry had become marginalized in the culture and rock musicians had taken over that function. Now the musicians are being supplanted by the social media platforms and memes, when it comes to this 'identity' function. That's a statement of what I perceive to be fact, not a value judgement.
2. Music is now more of an accoutrement to a wider celebrity brand than it used to be. That is, it's the 'brand' and what it signifies that really connects with people. Beyonce or Taylor Swift are good examples of this. Sure, people (sadly) dig the music. But what they *really* dig is the brand, to which the music gives them access. The brand is what's cool and what's primary. Now this has always been an element of popular music (Frank Sinatra's image was part of his appeal, beyond the music; ditto Dylan in the 1960s, for instance). I'm just saying the emphasis has shifted, such that the brand now outweighs the music as the primary locus of attention and allegiance. David Bowie might have been the first serious pop musician for whom the creation of a 'brand' identity was at least as much the POINT of what he was doing as making music. Ziggy Stardust was a *concept* and the music followed from that. In any case, the image and all it signifies are now the primary driver. You can *assume* that I'm condemning that, but I offer no opinion here; again, that's a separate issue from whether it's happening. All I'm saying is that it is.
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:That is, it's the 'brand' and what it signifies that really connects with people. Beyonce or Taylor Swift are good examples of this. Sure, people (sadly) dig the music. But what they *really* dig is the brand, to which the music gives them access. The brand is what's cool and what's primary.
I think I do understood, actually, I just happen to disagree. You are saying Hip fans connected and identified with the music more than fans of Beyonce and Taylor Swift. My experience as father of a sixteen year old tells me otherwise.
And saying you're not offering an opinion, condemning, or judging is a cop out (
oh please...
sadly...etc). I would rather you just own it. Doesn't make your opinion wrong (and, besides, I actually quite enjoy reading your opinions) but to say that young people don't connect with today's music like they did thirty years ago is most certainly opinion and not fact, for the same reason that claiming that one song is better than another is not fact...because, in this context, "connect with" and "better" are not objectively measurable.
But, OK, I will lay off and get back to talking about FC
Not 'copping out,' just trying to keep distinct claims separate. I'm more interested in hearing views about whether the two generalizations I offered above are viable than in arguing over whether Drake sucks. And of course those claims are 'opinions' - but they're opinions about what counts as a sociological fact, rather than aesthetic opinions. Nor were those opinions intended as some sort of indirect way to attack young people's tastes. Like I say, that's a whole other order of debate.
Incidentally, your criteria of things being 'objectively measurable' would rule out vast swathes of interesting discussion, including very important questions in our own lives, like whether we love someone or are loved by them. It might be better to expand our criteria beyond the easily quantifiable.
andrew sharpe Wrote:direwolf74 Wrote:we will likely never see another homegrown band become that popular ever again
I get what you're saying, but this is technically inaccurate as Biebs, Nickleback, Celine Dion, Michael Buble and Shania are all much more popular than the Hip ever were, both in Canada and internationally. Even Arcade Fire probably chart higher.
Perhaps I should clarify. I was talking specifically about rock bands in Canada. The Biebs and Michael Buble, etc.. yea, they're huge worldwide. But no other homegrown rock band is adored in Canada more than the Hip, especially during the 90s.
Like the others to this point, I picked this album up after I discovered the Hip; had heard Courage on the radio and 50MC was in regular rotation on our lab playlist but beyond that, I don't think I had heard any of the songs before I gave the CD a spin.
While I agree with the production not being as good (IIRC they talked about this being a more track by track approach as opposed to live off the floor) and lacks the energy that shines through on both UTH and especially RA.
For the rockers, some great riffs to set the tone (Courage, 50MC, Locked, 100th, Fully) with great fills and solo work but as others have mentioned these really take a life of their own live. I seem to recall Paul talking about really opening up on Courage live because he found the recorded version too basic so he does much more live.
Pigeon Camera is simply genius and Wheat Kings is legendary; nothing really fancy or flashy with either but amazing song writing that has just what the song needs.
Have always loved the "Jacques Cartier, right this way" line; not sure what it is about it but it has always resonated with me.
Love this album and, while I think I'm in the minority, I think Bob Ludwig did a really good job with the vinyl reissue; certainly gets closer to the magic of seeing these songs live.
Shane
gsmacleod Wrote:...while I think I'm in the minority, I think Bob Ludwig did a really good job with the vinyl reissue; certainly gets closer to the magic of seeing these songs live.
I want to go back and listen to the vinyl -- I thought it was a bit disappointing with the first few spins, now gets an "OK", and the later releases seem to be a sonic improvement.
Some random thoughts on a few Fully Completely tracks:
Looking for a Place to Happen – The potential sonic link between between RA and FC had the guitars not been neutered by Tsangarides. A more broad political statement than the narrowly focused “Born in the Water”.
At the Hundredth Meridian – Gord is not only a skillful story-teller, he is a master artist, able to paint vivid pictures with words. One of my favourite examples of this is “Driving down a corduroy road, Weeds standing shoulder high, Ferris Wheel is rusting off in the distance”. These are evocative lines that beautifully describe a barren prairie town.
Pigeon Camera - Along with “Alive” by Pearl Jam, a great entrant in everybody’s favourite category, “incest songs” (a genre likely started with The Doors “The End”?). The co-existence of the “spying” theme with the brother-sister relationship, along with the non-sequitur of burning boots, makes for a very interesting song. Musically, one of the Hip’s top shelf tunes.
Lionized – Seemingly one of the very few concessions to current musical trends in the Hip’s catalogue. It has “1992” written all over it in permanent black marker.
Locked in the Trunk – An all-time great. It’s near perfect, with an outro solo that is among the Hip’s best. However, if was to try to find fault in this song it’s in Downie’s restrained singing in the first half of the song. He starts out flat, without any emotional lift occurring until the second time through the “Then I found a place it's dark and it's rotted” verse. At this point he heightens the intensity but it feels late. I would have liked to hear a vocal take with him bringing that for the whole song. Then again maybe that wouldn’t have worked and maybe it is as close to musical perfection as the Hip come on FC.
We’ll Go Too: A lifeless, banal song. The weakest link on FC, IMO. I’d love to sub in Radio Show for track 7 of FC. The song is a plodding mid-tempo rocker with my greatest annoyance being how Gord comes down too hard on “What” in the “What can you do” line.
Fully Completely – Gord Sinclair’s best bass work on the album. His rhythmic thumping is foregrounded in the outro of the song, making it one of the few instances where bass is the dominant instrument at song’s end.
Wheat Kings – A great example of Gord’s sardonic Canadiana. The reason this song works is the juxtaposition of the beautiful (idyllic prairie, pretty things) and the ugly (killing and legal injustice). Without the ugly, this song would be a saccharine attempt at a new national anthem. The loon call, mentions of Prime Ministers and the CBC, the prairie location… he barely stopped short of calling it Wheat Kings, Eh! But, he not only saves the song, he elevates it to legendary status with the contrasting images.
A great post, potsie. I would quibble with your account of "Locked," though, in that I think Gord's low-register singing - always one of his infallible strengths - is excellent in the ominous prelude; and I've always felt that "lift off" occurs precisely in the second verse you excoriate. Excellent insights, though!
I actually love the production on this album...I guess that's just me. I can see why the chosen songs were remastered for the Yer Favourites release because they sound so different from the other albums.
I remember being a kid in the Buffalo area and hearing the songs from this album on 97.7 HTZ FM or Q107. Fifty Mission Cap always stood out to me and has always been one of my favorites, I wondered for the longest time if it was about a real person or not. (I knew nothing about hockey history yet). I'm also impressed they stretched a song comprising of only 1 verse (albeit repeated) and a simple chorus into a 4 minute song.
Courage - nothing in the song rhymes at all and that's awesome. I love how the bridge builds and builds into the final "under pressure"
One time my friend and I were riding around and we sang "FULLYYYYY!!!! COMPLETELY!!!!!!!" and "LET ME OOUUUUUTTTTTTTT" like the music teachers from the recurring SNL skit (the Culps - played by Will Ferrell and Ana Gasteyer)
Like someone else said, I also love the line "Jacques Cartier, right this way". Reminds me of 7th grade history class in NY State and learning about all the explorers in North America.
Edit: At the Hundredth Meridian - I did wonder for a long time if he meant "I remember Buffalo" as in my city or the animal that roamed "where the great plains begin..."
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:A great post, potsie. I would quibble with your account of "Locked," though, in that I think Gord's low-register singing - always one of his infallible strengths - is excellent in the ominous prelude; and I've always felt that "lift off" occurs precisely in the second verse you excoriate. Excellent insights, though!
I may have misled you to believe that my analysis was a criticism. I’m not excoriating anything in "Locked". I’m just wondering aloud if a different vocal take could have improved the song. The current version stays fairly flat for most of the song.
Now, let's imagine that the opening stanza ending with “Brushing by the machine revving tension” serves to set the ominous tone of the song, using restrained singing. He then jumps into “Morning broke out the back side of a truck stop” with an intensity to match the intensity he currently uses in the third verse (the second time through “Then I found a place, it's dark and it's rotted”). In my version, he keeps ratcheting up the intensity each subsequent verse using his Road Apples voice, making for a harder hitting song. The song now becomes less of a "dark, brooding" type and more something with "sustained intensity". Whether that would make the song any better is certainly wide open to debate. It's just that if I was the man behind the control panel in the studio while he was recording this song I would have said, "That was great Gord, but let's try it one more time and this time I want you to...."
potsie Wrote:Killer Whale Tank Wrote:A great post, potsie. I would quibble with your account of "Locked," though, in that I think Gord's low-register singing - always one of his infallible strengths - is excellent in the ominous prelude; and I've always felt that "lift off" occurs precisely in the second verse you excoriate. Excellent insights, though!
I may have misled you to believe that my analysis was a criticism. I’m not excoriating anything in "Locked". I’m just wondering aloud if a different vocal take could have improved the song. The current version stays fairly flat for most of the song.
Now, let's imagine that the opening stanza ending with “Brushing by the machine revving tension” serves to set the ominous tone of the song, using restrained singing. He then jumps into “Morning broke out the back side of a truck stop” with an intensity to match the intensity he currently uses in the third verse (the second time through “Then I found a place, it's dark and it's rotted”). In my version, he keeps ratcheting up the intensity each subsequent verse using his Road Apples voice, making for a harder hitting song. The song now becomes less of a "dark, brooding" type and more something with "sustained intensity". Whether that would make the song any better is certainly wide open to debate. It's just that if I was the man behind the control panel in the studio while he was recording this song I would have said, "That was great Gord, but let's try it one more time and this time I want you to...."
But how about those vocals to Locked live...!
I'm quite happy with the mix of "dark and brooding" and crazy yelling that makes up the recorded vocal. Indeed, that's one track on which I'd change nothing. But hey, to each their own :thumb:
Track by track (vinyl reissue)
Courage - a great song; not necessarily the greatest recording as everything lacks a little grit that they bring to the song live. Great simple riff for the song which is pretty immediately recognizable along with some great fills and a solid solo. Lyrics are restrained and there's much less of the energy (as mentioned by others) on the track compared to RA, UTH and even the EP.
Looking for a Place to Happen - have always really enjoyed the lyrics here and while the rhythm guitar is pretty straightforward, Rob's fills on this track are fantastic. Some great little licks, slides and sustained notes that really add to the song. Never really like a song just fading out at the end.
At the Hundredth Meridian - another great, immediately recognizable riff to drive the song; lyrics are fantastic and the imagery is just amazing.
Pigeon Camera - what a great intro and simply an amazing groove; simple and nothing flashy but just what the song needs. Great lyrics and a fantastic piece of songwriting. Rob's work on both the mini solo and the longer solo is right in the pocket and you can almost see him focused on playing just the right notes for the song as opposed to playing a few more notes a bit faster.
Lionized - certainly not the strongest on the album but some great lines (smoking just a little too violently), solid up tempo playing with a catchy little riff driving the song.
Locked in the Trunk of a Car - fantastic intro and great use of restrained vocals to go with the build; then it kicks in with a great driving power chord progression and great fills by Rob. really like the background vocals on this as well. Love Rob's solo but while it is a great example of what he can do, I think the mix leaves it a little lacking (plus the fade out at the end
)
We'll Go Too - some nice tones on the guitars opening the song; solid tune but not nearly as strong as the rest of the album.
Fully Completely - have always loved this song, especially when partnered with Grace, too. The bass line is fantastic and really drives everything. Some wonderful fills from Rob with some great little licks that work well with what Paul and Gord are doing.
Fifty Mission Cap - simply another amazing riff to drive the song; love the lyrics and the background vocals; another great piece of song writing.
Wheat Kings - straightforward intro (after the loons) used to tell an important story; great juxtaposition of beauty and awful and at least a bit of an indictment of our turning a blind eye to justice when we think some got what they deserved, even if not for the right crime.
Wherewithal - don't love this song but I enjoy it; great up tempo rocker that's just fun. Rob's solo is a bit of a face melter compared to much of what he does and much more obviously processed by several effects than he usually uses
Eldorado - great tune and another great closer to a Hip album; love Johnny's punctuation with the drums in this; fun catchy guitar playing and I can never sing along with "thinking bout drinking" without getting lost; no idea how Gord can keep that going.
Shane
I was thinking the other day about how *dark* this album is, thematically.
-"Place" - > a warped, ambiguous take on First Contact, what with murder and garbage bag trees, ominous at least for the "ancient race"
-"Pigeon" -> whether or not there is enough textual info here to say for sure that the song concerns incest, the subtext is indeed "horrific"
-'Trunk" -> cheerful mass murder, what more can ya say
-"Cap" -> the Leafs fans think it's a celebration of their POS franchise, but in fact it's about death and immolation in the Canadian wilderness - nice
-"Wheat kings" -> massive injustice by an indifferent nation, not exactly "Sunshine on my Shoulder"
-"Wherewithal" -> poor ol' Richard, eternally interrupted and doomed; his greatest achievement is getting out before...something.
I'm not going to say it's the darkest Hip album, but offhand I'd have to say it's markedly darker than their work would typically be after DFN, and it's certainly a more unsettling emotional landscape than that which marked the previous albums (not that those were all happy happy either). At a certain point, Gord started singing more about relationships than about predation, disaster, and death, and while it made for a warmer lyrical palette, it perhaps never became as visceral as this sort of stuff.