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some canadian politics questions...
#1

Hey all. I have a few questions about the things going on in Canada, living in the US now its hard to keep up to date with whats going on...I left the same day Belinda Stronach (sp?) switched over to the liberals...so my question is does anyone know what happened between her and Stephen McKay (they were/are dating right?)?

and also about the sponsorship scandal...what ever happened with that?

thanks...

~Will.
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#2

Belinda and Peter McKay appear to be broken up....McKay, the poor conservative moneygrubber, heartbroken, Belinda, the liberal victim, just making a power move. I don't know if it's been played out in the media officially as a break-up, but really, can any relationship withstand public betrayal with a side of emasculation just for fun...

As for the sponsorship scandal, it's still be inquired into...an election will follow the findings.
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#3

thanks...man that is harsh for peter eh...

~Will.
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#4

I doubt I would call Stronach a victim. She willingly betrayed her party at a crucial juncture. Also, the wave of public anger is over for the sponsorship scandal, I think. The public has every right to boot the lying Liberals right out of power...but they won't. This country is enamoured with those that rob them blind. It's like when an abductee falls in love with his/her captor.

Jeff

June 21, 2003 Toronto, ON: SkyDome
July 1, 2004 Toronto, ON: Molson Amphitheatre
November 26, 2004 Toronto, ON: Air Canada Centre
June 24, 2006 Toronto, ON: Historic Fort York
May 10, 2007 Indianapolis, IN: The Vogue
July 14, 2011 Edmonton, AB: Northlands Festival Site
June 30, 2012 Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON: The Commons at Butler's Barracks
January 23, 2013 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
July 28, 2016 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
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#5

fingernailsonhull Wrote:This country is enamoured with those that rob them blind. It's like when an abductee falls in love with his/her captor.

I have to disagree with you. This country is enamoured with, for good or bad, Trudeauism and the Charter. Granted, there is a smug self righteousness that many on the left feel when it comes to protecting the rights of minorities and defending a strong central government. Yet some, like me, feel this is crucial to the Canada we know, love and wish to defend. Others, like Conservatives, feel it is eroding the "majority rule" and traditions of Canada. Both are valid, I happen to feel the latter is tragically misguided and outdated.

It's not that we (liberals) like corruption or scandal, it's that we're willing to support a party dedicated to centrist and leftist ideas; multiculuralism, the Charter, a woman's right to choose, defending Canada in Quebec and vice versa... and yes, break out the platform: health care, even IF there were some shady dealings going on. It just shows you how out of touch many of the Conservative policies seem to us.

It's not that we don't want to support another party... we can't. Stephen Harper has done all he can to purge the gun lobby/fundamentalists in his party and make it known that not much would change with him as PM. However, it's the fringe dwellers (Gallant, the outoing White) that make it hard to boot the Liberals and back his group. There's a lingering unease.

And on a purely partisan note from me; a balanced budget with increased social spending, same sex marriage passing, turning down Star Wars, commendable Tsunami and New Orleans relief efforts and a commitment (yet to be proven) to the Canada Health Act has earned my vote for Martin in '06.

I think the "Mercer Doctrine" says it best: "When you're choosing between the lesser of two evils, it's very important to choose the lesser evil."

...Plus, that Belinda is kinda cute for a mom.

And for our neighbours to the South, here's the sponsorship scandal in six easy points:

1) In ’94, a separatist provincial government was elected in Quebec. Suddenly, the number one goal of the Quebec government was to take Quebec out of Canada. They began using Quebecer’s tax money to finance a referendum on separation and to buy TV and newspaper ads telling people why Quebec should leave Canada. The federal government in Ottawa, led by Jean Chretien, decided that they had to fight back. So, using federal tax money, they started what would become the Sponsorship Program. (It only went into full effect after the '95 referendum) Basically, the program was designed to plaster images of Canada and the Canadian flag all over Quebec, and allow the Canadian government to sponsor events i.e. “This tractor pull is brought to you by the government of Canada.” A "here's what being apart of Canada gets you" type deal. Not a great strategy... on the other hand, the Clarity Act is a great strategy... but that's another post.

2) In 2003, just as Chretien was leaving office and Paul Martin was coming in, Auditor General Sheila Fraser found that a bunch of tax money meant for the sponsorship program had gone missing, and that the companies being paid by the government to put up the sings and create the ads etc. had been WAY over paid. She also found that the companies being handed these jobs by the government, just happened to be financial supporters of the Liberal party. This is what became known as the “sponsorship scandal.”

3) Paul Martin, on his first day as PM in December ‘03, creates a “commission of inquiry” to find out just who gave these companies all that extra money and why. He chooses John Gomery to be the judge. So, it becomes known as “The Gomery Inquiry”

4) Here’s what the Gomery Inquiry found: after fighting the ’95 Quebec referendum (which they won) and the ’97 federal election (which they also won) Jean Chretien’s Liberal party was broke. Some of Chretien’s top fund raisers began telling ad companies that the party was broke and needed money, and if they wanted to continue getting government contracts (i.e. paid to create ads and “this mud wrestling match sponsored by the government of Canada” banners) they’d better contribute to the Liberal party. You scratch our back, we’ll scratch yours.

5) That “back-scratching” is not rare in Ottawa. Every government since John A. Macdonald has done it. Where things get weird, and where this becomes a monster issue is here: the government would give Ad Company X $400,000 for $200,000 worth of signs or whatever. Ad Company X would then make a $200,000 contribution to the Liberal party… often by stuffing the $200,000 into an envelope and handing it to one of Chretien’s fund raisers at a restaurant. Basically, they were being over paid so they could give that money back to the Liberals.

6) So, Gomery is finished now, and will release his report in December/January, and Martin has promised an election call within 30 days. We know what happened, but what we don’t know is if Chretien and the Liberals knew this was going on, or whether it was just a few bad apples breaking the rules while raising money.
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#6

to clear something up, when i wrote liberal victim, i meant liberal vixen.

The lesson, as always: I'm an idiot.
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#7

Stephen, I understand your point and I respect it, but the whole idea that the party you support should stay in power no matter what they do wrong is absurd. It denies democracy one of its best traits: to keep corruption out of the political sphere as much as possible because of the threat of losing power. If a government and bureaucracy do what the Liberals have done, they should be removed from power by the electorate, plain and simple. Perhaps I'm an idealist. That party will continue to do this to us until we show them that we will not hand power over to them no matter what.

Jeff

June 21, 2003 Toronto, ON: SkyDome
July 1, 2004 Toronto, ON: Molson Amphitheatre
November 26, 2004 Toronto, ON: Air Canada Centre
June 24, 2006 Toronto, ON: Historic Fort York
May 10, 2007 Indianapolis, IN: The Vogue
July 14, 2011 Edmonton, AB: Northlands Festival Site
June 30, 2012 Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON: The Commons at Butler's Barracks
January 23, 2013 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
July 28, 2016 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
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#8

Democracy has never actually worked to keep corruption out of the political sphere, though.

Corruption and politics go hand in hand.
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#9

wow and thanks everyone (esp you steve, I really liked how you boiled the gomery thing into 6 points...its pretty much what I thought was going on...kinda like a refresher).

I had a shitty night at work, we were swamped with patients all night...im having a few Canadian beers I brought with me, watching the trailer park boys on dvd, and now listening to a little hip, I love the new orleans is beat/NOIS combo from the toronto download.com show, and now im off to bed to do it all over again tonight, but I enjoy it)

I love this board, it really helps me feel not quite as far from home some days.

:thumb:

~Will.
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#10

Stephen, you and many other regular Canadians may identify with the Liberal Party as representing centrist or slightly left-of-centre political ideas... however I would argue that the Liberals do not represent those ideals. The current Liberal party has fallen a long way from the Trudeau days. Whatever your opinion on what Trudeau and the Liberals did in those days, no one could question that the Liberals were a party of ideas and vision back then.

Today, the Liberals are a bloated, corrupt mess, and Chretien and Martin were vastly inferior PMs. My opinion is that the current version of the Liberals embody their supposed unofficial motto, "Get power at all costs, keep power at all costs".

Just to be clear, Stephen, I don't have this level of disgust with regular Canadians like you who feel no choice but to vote Liberal. I think many people are misguided, and don't realize that there are alternatives to voting Liberal. For one, I don't believe the Conservatives' policies are as alienating as many people claim they are. But if you can't bring yourself (for some reason) to vote Conservative, then vote Green... or even (gulp!) NDP... anyone but the Liberals at this point. The Liberals need to be voted out of office and put in their place... then perhaps in their "time in the wilderness", they can rediscover their roots and be a party of ideas again.

Anyway, as usual I've been a little long-winded in my response. But I do respect your views, Stephen, and the reasoned way you bring them forward. I do hope you take another look at who deserves your vote, and decide to place it with anyone but Martin and the Liberals. Thanks.
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