[Tthip]

A couple of errors..
2. p. 114. DFN release date is incorrectly listed as September 6, 1994. Should be September 19, 1994.

TheHip.com lists it as Sept 6

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[direwolf74]

Meh. We all knew there was gonna be some stuff in this book that might not be entirely accurate due to the band not participating. Most unauthorized books do. I still found it a highly entertaining read. I'd love to hear which parts in the book that Baker disagrees with and hear his side of the story eventually. Or better yet, give us a full-length documentary on the history of the band with involvement from all the official parties. (And an accompanying soundtrack album featuring rare tracks and live stuff!)

[Nuanda]

I was on the fence about whether to read it or not, but after reading Rob Baker's comments about it on Twitter, I think I'll give it a pass. When asked about the "unofficial" controversy, he said "Unofficial means we did not cooperate or corroborate. From what I’ve seen some of it is straightforward, much opinion and much laughably wrong."
And when another fan tagged him in a post about getting the book he said "Don’t believe everything you read. I saw a few paragraphs and almost blew my coffee out my nose." followed by "Anyone can say anything...much like the internet. My book, if and when I complete it, will at least be an eyewitness account."
So, I'm sure there is some interesting content, and I've heard it's a well-written book, but for those who choose to read it, just be sure to take it with a grain of salt.
(*note - I'm trying to contain my excitement that he said "complete it" and not "start it". Fingers crowed! )

[Nuanda]

I was on the fence about whether to read it or not, but after reading Rob Baker's comments about it on Twitter, I think I'll give it a pass. When asked about the "unofficial" controversy, he said "Unofficial means we did not cooperate or corroborate. From what I’ve seen some of it is straightforward, much opinion and much laughably wrong."
And when another fan tagged him in a post about getting the book he said "Don’t believe everything you read. I saw a few paragraphs and almost blew my coffee out my nose." followed by "Anyone can say anything...much like the internet. My book, if and when I complete it, will at least be an eyewitness account."
So, I'm sure there is some interesting content, and I've heard it's a well-written book, but for those who choose to read it, just be sure to take it with a grain of salt.
(*note - I'm trying to contain my excitement that he said "complete it" and not "start it". Fingers crossed! )

[potsie]

A couple of errors..
2. p. 114. DFN release date is incorrectly listed as September 6, 1994. Should be September 19, 1994.

TheHip.com lists it as Sept 6

[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]

Probably where the author got it, but it's wrong.

[potsie]

Baker’s not a big fan:

Rob Baker: "From what I’ve seen some of it is straightforward, much opinion and much laughably wrong"

He's clearly referring to the DFN chapter where it says they smoked a quarter pound of weed during the recording. It was a full pound.

[edgoffin]

(And an accompanying soundtrack album featuring rare tracks and live stuff!)

Agreed, I'll only believe his side of the story if it comes with all the masters of albums that they scrapped, plus an archive of live shows from every era of the band.

I was sort of surprised that Rob responded on Twitter, but I'm more surprised others don't recognize it as a book not endorsed by the band, and then tweet at the band members "look what I bought". It's sort of like asking Rob to autograph all the live show bootlegs I bought on CD in the early 90s.

I think the tweet has since been deleted, but one person then said Barclay was also selling bootleg T-shirts. I thought that was pretty funny. He wrote the definitive history of Canadian music through the 90s with a book forwarded by Gord, wrote many of the pieces in the incredible Maclean's commemorative issue, but to supplement his income sells knockoff T-shirts from a garbage bag outside concert venues.

[direwolf74]

I was on the fence about whether to read it or not, but after reading Rob Baker's comments about it on Twitter, I think I'll give it a pass. When asked about the "unofficial" controversy, he said "Unofficial means we did not cooperate or corroborate. From what I’ve seen some of it is straightforward, much opinion and much laughably wrong."
And when another fan tagged him in a post about getting the book he said "Don’t believe everything you read. I saw a few paragraphs and almost blew my coffee out my nose." followed by "Anyone can say anything...much like the internet. My book, if and when I complete it, will at least be an eyewitness account."
So, I'm sure there is some interesting content, and I've heard it's a well-written book, but for those who choose to read it, just be sure to take it with a grain of salt.
(*note - I'm trying to contain my excitement that he said "complete it" and not "start it". Fingers crowed!)

I don't doubt any of the stories told by the opening bands or producers, as those are essentially first-hand accounts. I'm sure there are bits that are more based on opinion and speculation: things like the band's personal relationships with each other and their management, or what the exact circumstances were surrounding the firing of Jake Gold and the lawsuit over their publishing, etc... Without talking to the band members themselves, you'll never be able to know exactly what went on behind the scenes with that stuff. Nor will you get the full picture of the recording and touring process, etc.. Such is the curse with unauthorized books. I'm guessing that this is the kind of stuff that Rob is talking about.

I noticed that much of the material in the book is already in the public record and sourced from previous articles and interviews over the years with the band members and people they worked with. Barclay even takes a few bits from his own previous work (Have Not Been the Same, various Macleans articles). So a lot of what's in the book does appear to be factually accurate, including the stuff regarding the inner workings of the Canadian music industry and how major labels operate. The rest of the book reads more like an essay or an in-depth magazine feature with the author's own opinion coloring the narrative.

Anyway, I still think it's an excellent read and a worthy addition for any Hip fan's collection. I'm sure we'll get the full story eventually, either through Rob's own book or perhaps an in-depth documentary in the future. Until then, this is the best book we've got. I say enjoy it.

[mark]

I'm sure we'll get the full story eventually, either through Rob's own book or perhaps an in-depth documentary in the future. Until then, this is the best book we've got. I say enjoy it.

i would say there is less than a 10% chance of this book ever coming to fruition. same with an release of b-sides and/or bonus material. this band has been really been big on giving the fans what they want. they've been all talk and no action for years.

i hope i'm wrong on that, but i'm not going to hold my breath.

[Killer Whale Tank]

mark, at the risk of sounding terribly cynical, the revenue stream from the Hip will largely dry up in the absence of 'new' Hip-related releases (whether memoirs, Bootleg Series releases, etc.). While the guys will find other projects and are no doubt materially comfortable, it will probably be hard to ignore the obvious revenue potential, knowing that there will be no more tours or truly new records to fall back on. So I would say the incentive structure has changed relative to the past, and for that reason am fairly optimistic that we will see more stuff from the Hip camp in due course.

As for whether Barclay's book is 'wrong,' he's assembling what he can from credible sources, whivh he identifies as he uses them. He is only wrong if his sources are. However, the idea that being a first-hand participant gives you the 'true' or 'full' story is naive. Rob will be able to share his recollections and his perspective on events - assuming he is telling the truth as he sees it and not BSing us. Those recollections and that perspective will themselves be partial, and quite possibly divergent from those of other participants. Baker also has a vested interest in protecting himself and his friends that a third party like Barclay lacks. So whatever he says should not be taken as Gospel either.

[direwolf74]

As for whether Barclay's book is 'wrong,' he's assembling what he can from credible sources, whivh he identifies as he uses them. He is only wrong if his sources are. However, the idea that being a first-hand participant gives you the 'true' or 'full' story is naive. Rob will be able to share his recollections and his perspective on events - assuming he is telling the truth as he sees it and not BSing us. Those recollections and that perspective will themselves be partial, and quite possibly divergent from those of other participants. Baker also has a vested interest in protecting himself and his friends that a third party like Barclay lacks. So whatever he says should not be taken as Gospel either.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

:thumb:

[mark]

mark, at the risk of sounding terribly cynical, the revenue stream from the Hip will largely dry up in the absence of 'new' Hip-related releases (whether memoirs, Bootleg Series releases, etc.). While the guys will find other projects and are no doubt materially comfortable, it will probably be hard to ignore the obvious revenue potential, knowing that there will be no more tours or truly new records to fall back on. So I would say the incentive structure has changed relative to the past, and for that reason am fairly optimistic that we will see more stuff from the Hip camp in due course.

I don't disagree with your comment about the revenue stream. but at this point in their careers, they've made enough money to live a comfortable lifestyle and I suspect they aren't in any dire need of cash.

like said, I really hope I'm wrong. but we've heard this "we have lots of extra songs" line before and nothing ever comes of it.

[Moof_Milker]

As for whether Barclay's book is 'wrong,' he's assembling what he can from credible sources, whivh he identifies as he uses them. He is only wrong if his sources are. However, the idea that being a first-hand participant gives you the 'true' or 'full' story is naive. Rob will be able to share his recollections and his perspective on events - assuming he is telling the truth as he sees it and not BSing us. Those recollections and that perspective will themselves be partial, and quite possibly divergent from those of other participants. Baker also has a vested interest in protecting himself and his friends that a third party like Barclay lacks. So whatever he says should not be taken as Gospel either.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

:thumb:

Yup. Facts include dates, names, statistics, etc., but the narrative thread that connect these things is always subject to personal interpretation and bias - be the source a rock journalist like Barclay or a band member like Baker. I say let's hear the story of the Hip from as many sides as possible. The Rashomon effect. The more angles on this story we get - from inside and outside the band, the closer to the truth we get. Hell, let's hope one day we get a book written by Billy Ray -- there's a version of the Hip I'd love to hear! Bring it all on.

[potsie]

Someone needs to explain to me what moral high ground those fans that are "boycotting" the book are standing on. No animals or small children were harmed during the writing of this book. Nor were the Hip harmed in any manner, either financially (there is no "competing" book from a band member) or from damage to their legacy. The book is very respectful.

People choosing not to read are missing out. There are stories and analysis in here (such as the CMG recording and the chapters on Gord's lyrics as poetry and his dance moves) that won't be found in any future book written by a band member. My reaction to Rob's Twitter comments were a shrug. So what if the details aren't perfect (I only pointed out the potential release date error so that the author, if he is still on this board, can correct it for future printings)... it's not meant to be a scientific paper. I will certainly read Rob's book if and when it ever comes out, and I suspect the number of details that he calls "laughably wrong" will be very limited.

[direwolf74]

Someone needs to explain to me what moral high ground those fans that are "boycotting" the book are standing on. No animals or small children were harmed during the writing of this book. Nor were the Hip harmed in any manner, either financially (there is no "competing" book from a band member) or from damage to their legacy. The book is very respectful.

Not surprisingly, the admins over at the Facebook page have already seized on Rob's comments as validation of their silly boycott, which has now made the news:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://globalnews.ca/news/4139870/tragically-hip-biography-fans-debate/?utm_source=AM980London&utm_medium=Facebook">https://globalnews.ca/news/4139870/trag ... m=Facebook</a><!-- m -->

According to Barclay, if there are any inaccuracies, it’s not for lack of trying to get the facts straight.

“Rob Baker said he read a couple of paragraphs. The book is 450 pages long. I’m sure I got a couple of dates wrong but the band itself refused the fact-checking document,” said Barclay. The author added that most biographies are unauthorized and that personal accounts are usually delivered through memoirs.

“I did dozens of interviews, almost 80 interviews with people who work closely with the band.”