12-12-2004, 10:28 AM
I've tried searching and I can't find it but has any figured out what the lines "And the pendulum Swings/for the horse like a man" mean?
Gift Shop
12-12-2004, 12:44 PM
This is right up my alley.
*LONG POST ALERT*
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For starters, I don’t think we could merely look at one line and figure out some suitable explanation without taking the song as a whole and seeing how it fits. Specifically, this is my opinion and I’m not saying that everybody else should agree or anything. But depending on one’s opinion of the whole song would definitely affect their take on the line in question.
Now, as far as symbolism goes, people from different geographical locations or religious beliefs or upbringings have different feeling towards symbols. In the western world here, we would view something such as a snake as something evil mostly because of its biblical reputation (whether one believes in the bible or not). Whereas someone in Africa might have a complete different take on it. Actually, an easier example would be simply rain. We might think of rain as a symbol for sadness, as it mimics tears, and we don’t do much when it rains; “save it for a rainy day” etc. But imagine what rain would mean to someone in the desert. Or what it would mean to someone who lives in the rainforest and sees rain almost all the time.
Symbols are not universal. But the Hip are North-American and the majority of the people on this board are North-American so chances are the meaning behind some of the Hip’s songs or items mentioned in them should probably be easily debunked by us. It just makes sense that most of the symbolism to them would be the same symbolism to us. Some of our hipbasers from across the pond should also be able to follow my line of reasoning (or the Hip’s) as we don’t differ that much.
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These opinions of the possible symbolic meaning behind these items are mine and might mean something entirely different to someone else. These are my acquisitions as a writer/poet. I play with symbols all day long. I don’t know why some of these are what I think they are but they might turn around and make perfect sense to the rest of the Hipbase. I have no way of knowing.
"The pendulum swings for the horse like a man out over the rim is ice cream to him"
In the line above we have five items (or concepts or symbols, whatever ya wanna call them);
"The *pendulum* (1) swings for the *horse* (2) like a *man* (3) out over the *rim* (4) is *ice cream* (5) to him"
1. The pendulum represents indecision, the swaying back and forth between choices.
2. The horse represents strength or like a physical power or wildness.
3. The man represents aggression, competition or strength. (Symbolism works mostly with stereotypes.)
4. The rim represents the limit, the rim of a glass or the rim of a cliff, it’s as far as something can go before it spills over.
5. The ice cream is sweet and represents pleasure, maybe even happiness, much like candy or chocolate or something. It might even go as far as representing energy or even further to represent guilt depending on the person.
So gathering wisdom from this line, as we all know Gord is a genius;
"The pendulum swings for the horse like a man out over the rim is ice cream to him"
We could say; “Strength in the face of indecision would take aggression to the limit of satisfaction.”
Or “Faced with indecision, strength becomes aggression while trying to find satisfaction”
Or change ‘satisfaction’ for ‘guilt‘; “Strength in indecision and aggression to the limit causes guilt”
I might be way out in left field but it makes sense to me;
Taking the line above;
"The *pendulum* (1) swings for the *horse* (2) like a *man* (3) out over the *rim* (4) is *ice cream* (5) to him"
And changing it;
"The *indecision* (1) swings for the *strength* (2) like *aggression* (3) out over the *limit* (4) is *satisfaction* (5) to him"
Reworking slightly;
"Indecision swinging for the strength like aggression put to the limit is satisfying.”
“Confusion of strength, much like aggression at its limit, causes guilt.”
I would say it means the last one there;
"The pendulum swings for the horse like a man out over the rim is ice cream to him"
Basically means;
“Confusion of strength, much like aggression at its limit, causes guilt.”
Paraphrasing Gord is somewhat hard cuz he’s paraphrasing what he’s saying but I like to think I’m onto his game.
Thoughts everybody?
(P.S. Today is my birthday. I just had to say it. Big 22.
)
--------------------------------------------------------
*LONG POST ALERT*
--------------------------------------------------------
For starters, I don’t think we could merely look at one line and figure out some suitable explanation without taking the song as a whole and seeing how it fits. Specifically, this is my opinion and I’m not saying that everybody else should agree or anything. But depending on one’s opinion of the whole song would definitely affect their take on the line in question.
Now, as far as symbolism goes, people from different geographical locations or religious beliefs or upbringings have different feeling towards symbols. In the western world here, we would view something such as a snake as something evil mostly because of its biblical reputation (whether one believes in the bible or not). Whereas someone in Africa might have a complete different take on it. Actually, an easier example would be simply rain. We might think of rain as a symbol for sadness, as it mimics tears, and we don’t do much when it rains; “save it for a rainy day” etc. But imagine what rain would mean to someone in the desert. Or what it would mean to someone who lives in the rainforest and sees rain almost all the time.
Symbols are not universal. But the Hip are North-American and the majority of the people on this board are North-American so chances are the meaning behind some of the Hip’s songs or items mentioned in them should probably be easily debunked by us. It just makes sense that most of the symbolism to them would be the same symbolism to us. Some of our hipbasers from across the pond should also be able to follow my line of reasoning (or the Hip’s) as we don’t differ that much.
--------------------------------------------------------
These opinions of the possible symbolic meaning behind these items are mine and might mean something entirely different to someone else. These are my acquisitions as a writer/poet. I play with symbols all day long. I don’t know why some of these are what I think they are but they might turn around and make perfect sense to the rest of the Hipbase. I have no way of knowing.
"The pendulum swings for the horse like a man out over the rim is ice cream to him"
In the line above we have five items (or concepts or symbols, whatever ya wanna call them);
"The *pendulum* (1) swings for the *horse* (2) like a *man* (3) out over the *rim* (4) is *ice cream* (5) to him"
1. The pendulum represents indecision, the swaying back and forth between choices.
2. The horse represents strength or like a physical power or wildness.
3. The man represents aggression, competition or strength. (Symbolism works mostly with stereotypes.)
4. The rim represents the limit, the rim of a glass or the rim of a cliff, it’s as far as something can go before it spills over.
5. The ice cream is sweet and represents pleasure, maybe even happiness, much like candy or chocolate or something. It might even go as far as representing energy or even further to represent guilt depending on the person.
So gathering wisdom from this line, as we all know Gord is a genius;
"The pendulum swings for the horse like a man out over the rim is ice cream to him"
We could say; “Strength in the face of indecision would take aggression to the limit of satisfaction.”
Or “Faced with indecision, strength becomes aggression while trying to find satisfaction”
Or change ‘satisfaction’ for ‘guilt‘; “Strength in indecision and aggression to the limit causes guilt”
I might be way out in left field but it makes sense to me;
Taking the line above;
"The *pendulum* (1) swings for the *horse* (2) like a *man* (3) out over the *rim* (4) is *ice cream* (5) to him"
And changing it;
"The *indecision* (1) swings for the *strength* (2) like *aggression* (3) out over the *limit* (4) is *satisfaction* (5) to him"
Reworking slightly;
"Indecision swinging for the strength like aggression put to the limit is satisfying.”
“Confusion of strength, much like aggression at its limit, causes guilt.”
I would say it means the last one there;
"The pendulum swings for the horse like a man out over the rim is ice cream to him"
Basically means;
“Confusion of strength, much like aggression at its limit, causes guilt.”
Paraphrasing Gord is somewhat hard cuz he’s paraphrasing what he’s saying but I like to think I’m onto his game.
Thoughts everybody?
(P.S. Today is my birthday. I just had to say it. Big 22.
)--------------------------------------------------------
12-12-2004, 02:35 PM
Well, happy b-day Brazle but that doesn't earn you a by. I'm a-gonna hafta take issue with ya. (Long and pedantic post alert!)
I agree that picking apart lines without reference to the song as a whole is an error, and then I'm going to say that's the error I read in your post. Specifically, every word need not have a double meaning; everything need not be a symbol. Metaphors are ambiguous ideas which defy that kind of approach.
Now, Gift Shop: this song is closely related to Daredevil. Daredevil tells us that the real wonder of the world ain't Niagara Falls, but that we don't jump, too. Gift Shop repeatedly tells us that after a glimpse over the top, the rest of the world is a gift shop. Over the top of what? Niagara Falls, or the Grand Canyon, depending on the week and where Gord is standing, but I don't think that really matters. Over the top of something big, grandiose, magnificent. And "over the top" also has a common connotation of suicidal risk, coming from WW I trench warfare.
Something beautiful, something frightening. This (the sublime) is one of the major themes of what I'm tongue-in-cheekily going to dub "Downie's middle period," or FC-DFN-UTH. (His Nazis appear to be another expression of the same thing.) This is important: what the song is saying is both "after something so magnificent, everything else seems cheap and tacky" and "after something so terrifying, everything else is beautiful." If we knew that, wouldn't we jump?
Going back to "out over the rim is ice cream to him," things now seem pretty obvious. Not everyone is terrified by risk; really, the surprise is that we don't jump, too. For some, going out over the rim is a treat. Specifically, for our horse-like-a-man, it's ice cream.
So a horse like a man? Not so complicated, I think, as you might suppose. Downie has to sing what fits and lyrics demand rhyme. He also faintly recalls his math. If man = horse, then horse = man. What he's really singing is "for a man like a horse," but by inverting it he gets to make the assonant rhyme man/him. What's a man like a horse? Brazle already supplied the connotations of horses: strength, freedom, wildness.
The pendulum swings? Visually, perhaps our man swings out over the rim, and then swings back. From safety to risk and back safe again. No indecision here. That the pendulum will swing from one position to another is inevitable, as inevitable as the passage of time (which a pendulum might well symbolize). He swings out over the rim literally, he swings toward risk figuratively.
So: risk-taking, for some, is wild, liberating, a treat. And after a glimpse over the top, the rest of the world becomes a gift shop.
I agree that picking apart lines without reference to the song as a whole is an error, and then I'm going to say that's the error I read in your post. Specifically, every word need not have a double meaning; everything need not be a symbol. Metaphors are ambiguous ideas which defy that kind of approach.
Now, Gift Shop: this song is closely related to Daredevil. Daredevil tells us that the real wonder of the world ain't Niagara Falls, but that we don't jump, too. Gift Shop repeatedly tells us that after a glimpse over the top, the rest of the world is a gift shop. Over the top of what? Niagara Falls, or the Grand Canyon, depending on the week and where Gord is standing, but I don't think that really matters. Over the top of something big, grandiose, magnificent. And "over the top" also has a common connotation of suicidal risk, coming from WW I trench warfare.
Something beautiful, something frightening. This (the sublime) is one of the major themes of what I'm tongue-in-cheekily going to dub "Downie's middle period," or FC-DFN-UTH. (His Nazis appear to be another expression of the same thing.) This is important: what the song is saying is both "after something so magnificent, everything else seems cheap and tacky" and "after something so terrifying, everything else is beautiful." If we knew that, wouldn't we jump?
Going back to "out over the rim is ice cream to him," things now seem pretty obvious. Not everyone is terrified by risk; really, the surprise is that we don't jump, too. For some, going out over the rim is a treat. Specifically, for our horse-like-a-man, it's ice cream.
So a horse like a man? Not so complicated, I think, as you might suppose. Downie has to sing what fits and lyrics demand rhyme. He also faintly recalls his math. If man = horse, then horse = man. What he's really singing is "for a man like a horse," but by inverting it he gets to make the assonant rhyme man/him. What's a man like a horse? Brazle already supplied the connotations of horses: strength, freedom, wildness.
The pendulum swings? Visually, perhaps our man swings out over the rim, and then swings back. From safety to risk and back safe again. No indecision here. That the pendulum will swing from one position to another is inevitable, as inevitable as the passage of time (which a pendulum might well symbolize). He swings out over the rim literally, he swings toward risk figuratively.
So: risk-taking, for some, is wild, liberating, a treat. And after a glimpse over the top, the rest of the world becomes a gift shop.
12-12-2004, 03:26 PM
Hey yeah I think a combonation of the two explantions work in my assignment. My take on on Gift Shop. Is basically this: What comes after a tour or when you see something grand or big? the gift shop ofcourse. So Downie's singing about this grand experiance that makes the rest of you life and the world afterds seem just like the gift shop.
These were the only two lines I couldn't make fit into that idea, and I hadn't thought of the lement of risk, cool.
Thanks guys, any other thoughts?
These were the only two lines I couldn't make fit into that idea, and I hadn't thought of the lement of risk, cool.
Thanks guys, any other thoughts?
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