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Thoughts and Insights -- Road Apples
#1
These threads have been fun -- I'll move on to Road Apples, but feel free to jump back to the EP and UTH.

Released February 19, 1991
Recorded in New Orleans
Produced by Don Smith

Little Bones
Twist My Arm
Cordelia
The Luxury
Born in the Water
Long Time Running
Bring It All Back
Three Pistols
Fight
On the Verge
Fiddler's Green
The Last of the Unplucked Gems

If the leap from the EP to UTH was huge...they just kept leaping with Road Apples. This was the first album where I'd seen some shows from the previous tour, so some road tested songs or snippets I'd heard (likely more snippets of songs) came to light. The one thing I've always loved about this band is seeing a song develop from phrases or riffs heard on tour. Strangely, what I mostly remember is bits of Bring It All Back (I've been carving you phrase) which is a song that came and went quickly from set lists.

I listen to so much music on shuffle, I'd forgot how almost perfect this album is. It's maybe their most "rock" album for lack of a better word, possibly a reflection of playing bigger rooms and to bigger crowds. Seeing shows in this era, the audience changed significantly. It was funny to have Gord mention it last tour, but it really became a "rowdy guy" crowd and I saw a few shows with a large contingent of patched bikers in the crowd.

Biggest thing that strikes me with this album are the lyrics. UTH still has some remnants of song writing style from the EP (I'll call it by the book songwriting -- "I drank a bottle of Jack..."). If the timeline if true, Gord wrote all these lyrics. Song writing takes a leap forward, bit more abstract ("I'll drop a Caribou" is one of my favorite lines) vs. story telling. In a long list of great songs, Fiddler's Green ranks well up there -- saddest thing I've eve seen live was Gord singing at KRock (think it as the opening night of the rink show) with tears just pouring down his cheeks.

This was the album that made me realize, for better or worse, that seeing one show on a tour was not nearly enough. One that stands out was in Ottawa at the Congress Center, and it's never been properly listed on the show archive. It's not the NYE show, it may have been after that and listed as the Civic Center. The Waltons opened the show (I think The Skydiggers opened NYE).

Interesting with this album that they worked with Don Smith -- I think he and Bob Rock are the only producers who worked on consecutive albums?
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#2
edgoffin Wrote:Biggest thing that strikes me with this album are the lyrics. UTH still has some remnants of song writing style from the EP (I'll call it by the book songwriting -- "I drank a bottle of Jack...").
"By the book songwriting"... that's a good descriptor for some of the earlier work. This is really the album where he transitioned to a more figurative style of writing versus a literal style like your example above (although there are certainly some great examples of figurative writing on UTH.)

edgoffin Wrote:If the timeline if true, Gord wrote all these lyrics. Song writing takes a leap forward, bit more abstract ("I'll drop a Caribou" is one of my favorite lines) vs. story telling. In a long list of great songs, Fiddler's Green ranks well up there -- saddest thing I've eve seen live was Gord singing at KRock (think it as the opening night of the rink show) with tears just pouring down his cheeks.
Fiddler's Green is the most poignant song that Downie has ever written. There are lines in other songs that contain a similar sadness, particularly At Transformation, but Fiddler's Green is a tear jerker the whole way through. Interestingly there an image of hospital treatment that connects the two songs: "Balloons all filled with rain", describing an IV drip (per a fan on Hip Museum) and "Through the night it'd been raining venom" to describe the helpfully destructive chemo drip for his ex-wife's cancer treatment.[/quote]

edgoffin Wrote:Interesting with this album that they worked with Don Smith -- I think he and Bob Rock are the only producers who worked on consecutive albums?

Steve Berlin did Phantom Power and Music at Work consecutively but, as mentioned by Rob last year, Don Smith was the only one to get two good albums in a row out of them. If Don was still living, I would have loved to see them get back in the studio one more time with him.
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#3
There is an alt-country song from Todd Snider* that examines the relationship between Mick Jagger and Keith Richard. In contrasting their differences there is a couplet where he sings:

Mick Jagger was born on a Monday morning
Keith Richards was born on a Saturday night

I was thinking about those lines in the context of the Hip, not in terms of individual band members, but rather in terms of comparing different band eras. Road Apples era Hip (circa 1991) is definitely a band born on a Saturday night, tearing through mid-size venues across the country and laying waste to anything in their path. The interior album image of Downie (standing between the lyrics of The Luxury and Long Time Running) in dark jeans, boots, over-sized belt buckle and beard contributes to the feeling that this is a band that is going to kick your ass when it shows up in your town. In contrast, Music @ Work era Hip seems like a band born on a Monday morning, plodding along and mired in a relatively uninspired rut, at least on record.

If I could freeze the band at one particular point in time it would be Road Apples era Hip. The band is young, energetic, and firing on all cylinders, resulting in their hardest and grittiest album with a number of full-tilt rockers as well as two of their most poignant slow songs ever. Downie is nearly at his peak as a song-writer and in addition to expanding the number of sign-posts of Canadiana in his lyrics, he makes his first foray into political commentary. The Hip continued to improve and evolve after this point (having not yet made either their greatest commercial or artistic albums), however, for me, this is the band at their most exciting. This was also the time I discovered the band. Road Apples was the first Hip album I owned, and one of the last cassettes I ever bought as I got my first CD player not long after.


*the song is "Brenda". In the book Your Favorite Band is Killing Me Steven Hyden, tries to take both sides in arguing various pop music rivalries and talks about the Beatles vs. the Stones and Jagger vs. Richards and mentions this song in one passage.
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#4
My thoughts, track-by-track, on the album:

Little Bones – The Hip’s sweatiest tune, redolent of cigarette smoke and beer.

Twist My Arm – Great opening riff. Spawned one of my favourite song introductions: “This one is about delivering pizza to a crack house.”

Cordelia – This song is the source of one of my longest cases of Hip lyricosis: I always heard the line “A thief blinded on the job has to steal for life” as “A thief blinded on the job has to steal the light”, which actually fits quite well. Just a kick ass f**king song, with the outro being a contender for one of the Hip's best.

The Luxury – My first time travelling across Canada I was insistent to my wife that we pull into the parking lot of The Golden Rim Motor Inn in Golden B.C. and listen to The Luxury with the stereo cranked.

Born in the Water – The first instance of Gord providing a soundtrack to a political issue, proving him to be an astute observer of his political surroundings and unafraid to use his sharp pen to drawn attention to intolerance.

Long Time Running – A very visceral song. The line “Long, long when I’m gone” hits me deeply.

Bring It All Back – An underrated Hip gem. Contains a full minute of what I would consider to be some of Rob’s finest shredding.

Three Pistols – A strong contender for Gord’s best writing. Story-telling at its finest, with lyrics still left open to interpretation. I’ve never been clear how the “Three Pistols” ties into the Tom Thompson story (especially since Rob confirmed that the title was simply inspired by a road sign seen while on tour).

Fight – One of my favourites on the album the first few listens through. However, over the years it’s dropped to the bottom third of the album.

On the Verge – I love the wit of the line “Playing dead to f**k the undertaker”

Fiddler’s Green – Delicate and mournful.

The Last of the Unplucked Gems – The second time in three songs that Gord is self-deprecating (I’m too dumb for words/I’m kinda dumb and so are you) about his intellect. And I’m dumb as well when it comes to the meaning this song. I feel as if there may be a “simple complexity” to this song that I don’t get because it would be very un-Downie like to have throw-away lyrics. Great groove to this song.
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#5
I loved Up to Here from the moment I heard it; every song fit and the album was fantastic beginning to end. An upside of coming to the Hip later in the career was after listen to Up to Here several times through, I was able to move on the Road Apples.

While I loved Up to Here, Saskadelphia kicked my ass from the very first listen. This is the first album I ever recall just being totally enthralled with and being completely wrung out by the time I listened to the entire album. Just to let it play again. I was prepared to be disappointed by this when I first stuck it in the CD player; with how much I loved Up to Here, how could they possibly top that? I'm not sure it's "better" but just a fantastic album that did not disappoint.

As mentioned, a great rock album from beginning to end and the raw, gritty power of the boys shines through in a way that Up to Here didn't quite have. An amazing album that is a great example of a band growing into their promise and avoiding the second album jinx that catches so many artists.

Shane
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#6
To me, the relationship between Up To Here and Road Apples is like the one between The Beatles' Rubber Soul and Revolver. Interpret that as you may. My first impression of Road Apples wasn't from the music though, it was from the cassette itself. I was 12 when this came out and was listening to Guns N Roses and Metallica and bands like that. Not The Hip. My brother, 6 years older than me, was The Hip fan first. This was the first one he brought home - and proceeded to play it endlessly. Despite my brother's praise, 12 year old me just couldn't buy that a band from nearby Kingston were a great band. (Maybe it was me, but I feel it was much more difficult to be a cool Canadian band back then.) Over time though I started liking them more and more...and, even though I've never been much of a patriotic flag-waver, the fact they were Canadian made me like them even more. These guys weren't just good for a Canadian band, they were good and a Canadian band. I was hooked. And those album photos! Stark contrast to the slicked up, over-the-top hard rock bands I was reading about in magazines like "Metal Edge" at the time. The Hip looked...accessible. Like dudes I would see smoking darts outside the local arena. I was fascinated.
[Image: the-tragically-hip-little-bones-1991-2-ca.jpg]
[Image: the-tragically-hip-little-bones-1991-3-ca.jpg]
Road Apples is the one that got me. I love it. And I loved that cassette.
Note: Back then I used to think that the spelling of the "If I had loads of mondy to make me tame and sour" in these liner notes had some cryptic meaning...and wasn't just the typo that it obviously is.
Note 2: Bring on the Weakest Link poll!
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#7
No need for a weakest link poll for this album. There are none. I think it's arguably one of the best rock albums released by anyone over the last 25-30 years. The album came out in February, 1991. I was already a big Hip fan after discovering UTH and the Live at the Misty Moon concert on Muchmusic. But RA just took it to another level. I remember seeing posters of the album cover around downtown Calgary a few weeks before the release, and Sam's on 8th Avenue had a huge poster up as well. I was super excited. The nearest mall was only a few blocks from our high school, and on release day my buddy and I hopped on a bus during our lunch hour to go buy the cassette at A&A Records. We were the only guys in the store at the time, and the clerk was nice enough to give us some free Hip posters. I'll never forget listening to that sucker for the first time on the way home from school on my old yellow Sony Walkman. I still get chills thinking about it. That album quickly took over my life for the next few months, and I was completely obsessed from that point on. The Hip had now officially surpassed U2 as my favorite band, and I never looked back. So many great memories!
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#8
Enjoying the comments, I got into the Hip later than some of you.

The Hip also became my band after U2, Zooropa wtf?
In '91 I was beginning to take notice of the Hip from radio airplay.
Every song I heard from these guys I liked, much better than most of the crap played, I thought.
A couple of radio anecdotes from around that time that have stuck with me;
- an interview with a member of Northern Pikes, something like "Canadian bands can't do their own thing, we have to go along with what the label recommends. Except for the Hip, those guys are so powerful right now they can do whatever they want."
- pre- & post-show talk (wild & euphoric if I recall, Cafe Campus maybe) made it seem like the Hip were the 2nd coming.

I bought the 1st 3 albums shortly after DFN came out.
RA was actually my least favorite, a harder grating sound & bit too much raspy snarling for me at first (from the guy I was thinking had the best rock voice of the time). I got over it eventually.
at least a dozen shows - Montreal - Ste.Adele - Verdun ARA - Highgate ARA - Kanata - Sugarbush - Portsmouth
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#9
potsie Wrote:There is an alt-country song from Todd Snider*
Todd Snider is awesome. It's what would happen if Mitch Hedberg had kind of learned to play guitar. Hell of a storyteller. His Slash Story into Talkin' Seattle Grunge Rock Blues always kills me. ("we decided to be a band that refused to play a note, under any circumstances")

But this is the "Tragically Hip Discussion" and we're here to talk about Road Apples.

I think I'm in the minority on Saskadelphia. I think they're just short of their prime here, but they are in full swagger and that makes up for it. I dig most of the tunes, but I just don't have the same connection with them.

That being said, I learned how to play guitar, bass, and to a lesser extent, drums, by listening to this album enough that the CD doesn't work anymore. Of the hip albums, this is probably the easiest to learn and you feel like a real rockstar when you pick it up, and then some tracks off Up to Here and Fully Completely (and a few on TATH) start coming easy.

I've got a live version somewhere of Fight with John Popper. I'm sure it's on the base somewhere. It's unreal.

I'll never understand why Cordelia started to get dropped from set lists. That song's gotta be the best on the album.
That's all i got for now.
1995-02-10 Toronto; 1996-12-12 Toronto; 1998-07-04 Hamilton; 1999-02-22 Toronto; 2000-06-24 Toronto; 2000-12-06 Ottawa; 2002-08-02 Toronto; 2004-10-23 Ottawa; 2007-01-31 Oshawa; 2007-02-02 Ottawa; 2011-07-01 Toronto; 2012-02-09 Oshawa; 2015-02-19 Toronto; 2015-04-15 Oshawa; 2016-08-18 Ottawa
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#10
I see Road Apples as an apotheosis of early Hip, while also providing the pivot to what was to come. It's both a culmination and a signpost to the future.

The "apotheosis" part is that this is the fullest and in many ways final expression of the Hip as kick-ass gut-bucket bar band. The throat-splitting vocals are the most manic that Gord ever recorded; FC showed him decisively dialing back the hysteria in favour of a more controlled intensity (and probably extending the life span of his vocal chords in the process). The way the album is recorded brings the guitar interplay right to the fore in a way that isn't really accomplished on future records. On no other album can you so readily imagine a hot, sweaty club seething with mosh-pits and madness, the whole room three sheets to the wind.

The lyrics, meanwhile, show Gord shedding the hints of awkwardness and juvenilia that still marked UTH. With the sole exception of the ham-fisted 'Born in the Water,' his lyrics are impeccable here - more or less in his mature style of fragmentary, non-linear imagery, bound together as much by a theme and a vibe as by linear sense or straight-up story-telling. 'Twist My Arm,' 'Cordelia,' 'Three Pistols,' 'Gems,' and the superb 'Luxury' rank with any lyric Gord wrote thereafter; he's fully-realized on such tracks. Meanwhile, as others have noted, 'Fiddler's Green' is simply one of the finest things the Hip ever did, while 'Long Time Running' is a poignant document of the ambiguities of youthful love - a young man resisting commitment. It may be a callow sentiment coming from an aging family man like myself, but there's no denying how true it rings when you're 22. Gord's lyrical maturity here is the signpost to the future - pointing towards the 'arty' elements that future work would to some degree favour over the balls-to-the-wall lunacy of this album.

'Born in the Water,' as I asserted earlier, is the album's only misstep. A cumbersome museum piece that falls over itself to earnestly assert French language rights, its only redeeming feature is its excellent chorus.

The two songs that I always saw as occupying an ambiguous place on this record were 'Fight' and 'Bring It All Back to Me.' Both are clearly 'album' tracks, not singles. Frankly, I love 'Bring it All Back To Me.' Its simplicity is hypnotic, as is its riff, and its lyric - presumably about art - manages to be slightly unsettling and ominous. 'Fight' doesn't stand up as well to my ear, but is still a reasonably effective way to pass four minutes. I always loved 'On the Verge,' which isn't terribly sophisticated but has some great lines and rocks something fierce.

As other posters have said, this album holds a special place in my heart. I loved its intensity, and it didn't just confirm the promise of UTH, it pushed it forward; but in terms of kick-ass rock and roll, there was nowhere left for the Hip to go, and fortunately they found a way to move beyond it on FC. Like I say, apotheosis + signpost to the future.

If memory serves, critics didn't care much for the record at the time. Too sweaty, too appealing to the Hip's prototypical fan (the baseball-cap-wearing Canadian frat boy). Gord's vocals seemed too mannered and hysterical for left-brained critics. Not enough subtlety. But this was a record the Hip had to make. They blow the CanRock competition away for all time with this one. Having fulfilled their early potential, they could now develop more fully and more experimentally. An absolute arse-kicking classic.
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#11
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:this is the fullest and in many ways final expression of the Hip as kick-ass gut-bucket bar band.
Exactly what I was thinking. To me there's an obvious progression:

EP - Great local band
UTH - Good bar band
RA - GREAT bar band
FC - Fully realized rock band, ready for radio
DFN - Historically GREAT band
TATH - First hint at arty new direction
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#12
andrew sharpe Wrote:
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:this is the fullest and in many ways final expression of the Hip as kick-ass gut-bucket bar band.
Exactly what I was thinking. To me there's an obvious progression:

EP - Great local band
UTH - Good bar band
RA - GREAT bar band
FC - Fully realized rock band, ready for radio
DFN - Historically GREAT band
TATH - First hint at arty new direction


I'd say that sums it up perfectly. Well done.

:thumb:
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#13
andrew sharpe Wrote:
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:this is the fullest and in many ways final expression of the Hip as kick-ass gut-bucket bar band.
Exactly what I was thinking. To me there's an obvious progression:

EP - Great local band
UTH - Good bar band
RA - GREAT bar band
FC - Fully realized rock band, ready for radio
DFN - Historically GREAT band
TATH - First hint at arty new direction

I like these rankings as place holders on an evolutionary chart, but your label positioning sells the band short. The RA era band was more than just a great (or GREAT) bar band. This was a band that had moved far beyond the bar realm, lyrically and commercially. It seems rather pointless to enumerate great songs in defense of this because I could just list everything on RA. However, the visceral and intimate Fiddler’s Green, the emotional Long-time Running and the detailed story-telling of Three Pistols, not to mention two Bard references on one album(!), indicate an intellectual sensibility far beyond that of a band banging out Trooper and Kim Mitchell covers. The Hip and the “bar band” genre share musical roots in 50’s rock n’ roll and the 1960’s interpreters (mainly British) of that early music, and there are certainly some sonic elements of bar band music on this album, but I think this label gets used too often for anything past UTH.

This is how I see it, sliding everything up one spot:

EP – Good bar band
UTH – GREAT bar band
RA - Fully realized rock band, ready for radio
FC - Historically GREAT band
DFN - First hint at arty new direction
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#14
Road apples seems to be the album I always forget about. Not sure why, though. I like a lot (most) of the songs, but I never seem to go back to it.
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#15
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:I see Road Apples as an apotheosis of early Hip, while also providing the pivot to what was to come. It's both a culmination and a signpost to the future.

'Born in the Water,' as I asserted earlier, is the album's only misstep. A cumbersome museum piece that falls over itself to earnestly assert French language rights, its only redeeming feature is its excellent chorus.

Great stuff as usual KWT. It's interesting that you finger Born in the Water as the album's only misstep. I'm not going to disagree as it ranks near the bottom for me as well. However, in terms of Downie's growth as song-writer, it certainly holds some importance. This is the first evidence of social commentary and activism from him, something that has come to define him in 2016-17 through his work with, and for, the Indigenous community. I tend to prefer a more nuanced approach in political song-writing (whatever is the polar opposite of Neil Young's "Let's Impeach the President") and that is lacking here. His next attempt at grieving injustices, on "Looking for a Place to Happen", is much improved.

You use "museum piece" to describe (rather excellently) the "past best before date" of Born in the Water (I think an explicit mention of the Soo lends to that feeling). There is also the second potential interpretation of your wording in that this song should be on a plaque in the Downie museum to bring attention to an important first.
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